[Rhodes22-list] BR Intellectual Property

Sun Feb 5 23:01:54 EST 2006

Todd,

I don't mind the jabs, but you think these things through well, and 
that's what's really needed here.

Stan has never been able to make any money on this idea, and it's a 
great idea.  I seriously considered rigging a pop-up tent of some sort 
in the cockpit, but it's not the same thing.

Overnighting on this boat is nothing like camping out (which I gave up 
50 years ago).  And I always book nice hotel rooms--as I have often 
joked on this list, a Motel-6 is a lot more comfortable than a  million 
dollar sailboat--for one thing, you never have to yell at anyone about 
using too much water in the shower.

No, the thing is, if you have a comfortable way to overnight, and the 
day starts running long, and you would sooner just watch the sun set, 
and the stars come out, and if you're going to wake up in a quiet 
idyllic spot--you would die for a boom room around midnight that you 
could quickly erect and fall into.

I don't know if you've tried my Aerobed idea.  There is an Aerobed that 
fits right into the cockpit.  Together with the lazy rocking of the boat 
it is just about the most comfortable bed you will ever sleep in--I fall 
asleep on it in minutes.  But I don't want to wake up with the sun in my 
eyes, and I don't want to fend off mosquitoes all night.  Boom Room!

The Boom Room that is evolving as a result of this list will be as 
special as the R-22.  It will have features that can't be duplicated on 
other boats.  I don't like to sleep in most boats for reasons the Boom 
Room solves.

We are trying to come up with a design that can be purchased piecemeal, 
so that people with less cash can buy only essential pieces, and add to 
them over time as they see the usefulness of the device.

Pay attention to the ideas and the drawings and jump in with your 
thoughts.  One day you're going to want one of these things.

Bill

Todd Tavares wrote:

>Bill,
>
>   You and Wally both make very valid points.  I have never used a bimini nor over-nighted on a sailboat so I have no real idea of the necessities, concerns, or desirable features for a boom room type enclosure.  My input can't be more than a few hyperlinks and wise cracks.  LOL sorry.
>
>    I guess over-nighting must be close to camping out on the boat.  I still own a pop-up camper which I have not used in a few years.  The work and aggravation of rigging and setting up the camper took the fun out of it all.  We opt to leave the camper home and book nice hotel rooms instead. :-D  If the Rhodes had air conditioning and a shower, I'd be more interested!  If I ever get to the point of overnoghting, I will probably just cut the bottom three feet off of my old Hillary tent, and set it up on the cockpit seats. I have a few ideas.  I need to make a quick sketch before I post again.  It would involve having the top frame work protruding through short sleeve like openings (tied tight with ties like Roger's BR.
>
> You opened the door with the IP post.  I bit the inside of my cheek, but still could not help taking a jab.    
>
>Todd T.
>
>
>  
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] BR Intellectual Property
>>Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 10:57:16 -0500
>>
>>
>>Todd,
>>
>>I always like to know what you really think.
>>
>>I will have a new edition of How To Sell Your Home in 5-Days coming 
>>out next spring (2007) -- remind me then, and I'll send you a 
>>signed copy (I assume you don't need the information for personal 
>>use before then.)
>>
>>As to what I hope to get out of the boom room discussion, I hope to 
>>wind up with the best boom room ever made for an R-22.  No more, no 
>>less.  I doubt I ever would have thought of the idea had I not seen 
>>Stan's pictures.  The approach followed by MacGregor owners is 
>>different from the approach Stan recommends--and, as always, I 
>>think Stan's ideas are better.  Some of the Boom Rooms used and 
>>developed by people on the list also incorporate interesting ideas, 
>>that I surely would want to consider for use in my own boom room.
>>
>>Like Wally, I'm surprised you bought into the Bimini Room concept.  
>>Wally covered the reasons.  I don't want to have to carry around a 
>>Bimini in order to get the benefits of the boom room.  The designs 
>>suggested can be cheaply or expensively implemented with minimal 
>>stowage considerations.  They can be installed without any 
>>alterations to the boat--if so desired.  They will work on every 
>>R-22.  They can be upgraded by adding more fancy panels over time.  
>>Seems like a great design for a lot of people to me.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>Todd Tavares wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Bill,
>>>
>>>   Which Todd are you talking to?  We have at least a couple on 
>>>the list now.  I guess I'll have to start signing my last initial 
>>>from now on.     As far as the boom room design and any 
>>>intellectual property rights go...I personally am not involved in 
>>>this discussion.  I guess Brad's comment 'money talks and BS 
>>>walks' should sum it all up nicely.
>>>
>>>  It is funny though, how all of this talk of a boom room 
>>>syndicate quickly dissolved...especially when you mentioned 
>>>giving the design to Stan.  If boat owners want to give Stan 
>>>input and work with him on this, then that is fantastic. If you 
>>>want to act as an agent on spec for GBI,  (maybe Robert S. has a 
>>>cool Latin phrase for this ;-D)then more power to you.  The 
>>>question on most mind's here is probably not what portion of the 
>>>profit goes to Stan, but how much or what is Bill going to get 
>>>out of this whole thing?   I could tell you what I REALLY think 
>>>but ...it would cost ya.  I'd offer my opinion for the measly sum 
>>>of a signed copy of your book.  Not the one you are thinking 
>>>about.  The one about how to sell my house in five days.
>>>
>>>
>>>Todd T.
>>>
>>>Addendum; (Latin for PS?)  Seriously though, I think it makes 
>>>more sense to use Roger's design as a start.  Why have a bimini 
>>>AND a boom room?  In Rogers design, the framework of the bimini 
>>>does double duty.  It is just more efficient use of space, 
>>>materials and weight. IMHO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>>>To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] BR Intellectual Property
>>>>Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:56:46 -0500
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Todd,
>>>>
>>>>Please help me here.
>>>>
>>>>As usual, Stan has taken a completely different approach to
>>>>Dodger/Awning construction from the traditional marine source approach.
>>>>Most of us have enough faith in Stan to accept his experience at face value.
>>>>
>>>>We are planning to take all of his experience and build from it a
>>>>low-cost highly useful addition to our boats.  Stan has graciously told
>>>>us which way to go, from the many possibilities.  For this he surely is
>>>>entitled to something.  What?  How do we give it to him?  Do we each pay
>>>>him a royalty if we build BRs based on his concepts?
>>>>
>>>>It looks like if each of us gets some PVC or another material if
>>>>preferred, we can each build a frame based on Stan's design.  We can
>>>>then each make panels that hang from that frame.  The panels can be made
>>>>of blue plastic, or anything else once we publish frame sizes and shapes.
>>>>
>>>>Which means each of us could have a BR this summer if we want one.  We
>>>>can pool our knowledge and come up with common specs for everything.  We
>>>>can improve panels and frames as we can afford to update.
>>>>
>>>>Stan would wind up owning the patterns, and specs for the room.  Over
>>>>time he could fabricate and sell things for less than any individual
>>>>could make the first one.  People could start with plans for a cheap
>>>>room, and graduate to more and more screened and clear panels as desired
>>>>over time.  If we are using the room, I would guess we would spring for
>>>>more expensive and versatile panels.
>>>>
>>>>What is a fair royalty for using Stan's concept?  How do we pay him?
>>>>This will, of course, be honor system.
>>>>
>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>    
>>
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