anchoring thoughts and motoring to take up the strain RE: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Sat Jan 14 16:31:47 EST 2006


Mary Lou,

Thanks for providing more grist for the mill.  I don't understand how to 
test the load on an anchor.  Do you?  Did Fortress explain this at all?  
I assume it's done by putting a big "fish scale" between 2 parts of the 
rode.  I haven't seen the PS anchor story yet, but I did see the picture 
of the winch on the dock.  They must have a "fish scale" somewhere in 
that rig to measure the load.

If they are testing anchors with winches, again, they have, again, 
entirely missed the point of anchoring.  The winch is the brick and the 
anchor is the kite.  This has everything to do with coming up with big 
numbers, and nothing to do with anchoring--it does not tell you the 
loads put on an anchor when anchoring--only the loads generated by a big 
winch.

This type of test favors a plow type anchor because these anchors set by 
being pulled into the bottom like a plow designed to get stuck.  This 
type of test also makes catenary curve discussions meaningless, because 
the winch pulls the curve entirely out of the rode.

PS didn't come today.  I didn't see anyone able to load it on the list.  
I'll be damned if I pay them to see something I've already bought.

Bill Effros



Mary Lou Troy wrote:

> Michael and all,
> We've never actually used the motor to take up the strain in a storm 
> anchoring situation but have had the motor fired up and ready to shift 
> into gear. Windage in our boats is substantial, especially at night in 
> cruising configuration (pop-top cover & bimini up). A couple of years 
> ago we were anchored in Swan Creek (with our old set up, a 9 lb 
> Danforth and 16 feet of chain, 7:1 scope) when a thundersquall 
> approached. The WX radio was calling for "possible" gusts in excess of 
> 40 knots. Swan Creek is iffy holding ground - it's good mud but 
> there's a lot of junk on the bottom. We seemedl dug in but there was a 
> three boat raft-up not too far away and many other boats behind us.  
> As the wind picked up we decided to start the motor just in case we 
> needed maneuverability if the raft-up started dragging or to take some 
> of the strain off of our rode if we started dragging. As it turned out 
> I don't think the winds got over 35 knots and we and the raftup held 
> so we just put about 40 minutes of running time in the motor until the 
> storm blew out. It was pretty wild for the duration. We were swinging 
> at anchor quite a bit though not as far as we do on quieter evenings 
> and the raftup really moved around as the wind shifted as the storm 
> passed through. One of the things we think about when anchoring is: 
> will there be enough room if boats swing differently? We got a good 
> demonstration that night of boats swinging differently in the same 
> wind conditions. A couple of boats behind us dragged and reanchored 
> successfully - at least they were in different places the next morning 
> so I assume that's what happened. When we pulled anchor in the morning 
> we had a lot of mud on one fluke and not much on the other. We might 
> have only ever had one fluke dug in or we might have been rocking back 
> and forth as we swung, I don't know but I suspect that it just dug in 
> on the angle and the strain from the wind just dug that side in 
> further. The chain, except for the last foot or so was cleaner than 
> usual so I'm sure it was off the bottom for at least part of the time. 
> The last foot or so was very muddy and may have helped the Danforth 
> stay put.
>
> At Annapolis boatshow lastOctober we found a very good deal on a 
> Fortress FX-11 and started experimenting with a new configuration. The 
> 9 lb Danforth had served us well, especially after we added another 10 
> feet of chain but the weight of the chain made it harder to move the 
> bag of anchor and chain around on deck and harder to retrieve. 
> Fortress recommends 6 ft for 25 ft. of water or less so that's what we 
> are trying figuring we might as well start with the lightest and see 
> how it does. The whole set up has more theoretical holding power and 
> is much lighter than the Danforth. We only had one chance to try it in 
> the fall. I was able to get a good set on the second try. One of the 
> reasons I have been reluctant to more away from the slightly 
> undersized Danforth (it had been the "storm" anchor on our Com-Pac 16) 
> was that I really knew how to set it and knew when it was well set. 
> Now I'm starting over with the Fortress. We're keeping the Danforth as 
> an easily reachable second anchor because I know how to set it.
>
> BTW, according to a table in the Fortress literature we can only put a 
> load of 160 lbs on our anchor setting it with an 8 hp motor. That was 
> determined by pulling against a bollard so I suspect it's even less 
> with our Honda outboard in reverse.
>
> In any event anchoring is as much art as it is science. In a blow, you 
> want to have the science as the basis for what you are doing but if 
> you couldn't get your anchor to set properly or the holding ground is 
> poor the science may not be as much of a factor. Every weekend we 
> watch people (hopefully with anchors new to them or in charter boats) 
> plowing up the anchorages, backing all over the place. We've watched 
> people try over and over again to set an anchor and finally motor off 
> to some other place or maybe a marina without ever having set the 
> anchor. Or other folks motor to a stop, drop anchor and never put a 
> tug on the rode to see if it's set. We watch those boats very 
> carefully if they are anywhere near us. Often conditions are so benign 
> it doesn't matter but we watch them anyway.
>
> Our anchoring experiences have been good but limited to Chesapeake 
> mud. We've spent a lot of nights on the hook and learned a lot from 
> watching others and from anchoring ourselves. It does take practice. 
> It's the only way you learn. The only time I'm sure we dragged was 
> where we were the anchor boat in a 5 R22 raftup in Swan Creek. In 
> retrospect we should have had the Kaynor's Raven as the anchor boat - 
> their anchor was bigger but it was a calm afternoon when we anchored - 
> the wind picked up at the tail end of happy hour so no harm done. The 
> only time we've been dragged down on was very scary when a large power 
> boat dragged into our Com-Pac 16 when we were on a mooring. He got his 
> motor started and got off of us before any damage was done. In 
> retrospect I probably should have been on the bow ready to cut the 
> line so we could get out of his way if necessary.
>
> I've read all of Bill's arguments before and I must say that his 
> observations on LIS (?, i think?) are very different from ours on the 
> Chesapeake but I've thought about them as I've analyzed various 
> anchoring situations and maybe they shed some new light on a situation 
> or two. Some of that thinking may have influenced our decision to try 
> a lighter weight set-up. If we ever take the boat somewhere where we 
> will be anchoring in sand (though there are sandy bottoms on the 
> Chesapeake) and rock we'll re-think our anchors and chain again.
>
> My nickels worth. BTW, the attached picture is of the 5 R22s in Swan 
> Creek BEFORE the raft broke up.
>
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22  Fretless
> Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
>
>
>
>
> At 01:41 AM 1/14/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> The problem, how much time do you have to do the "prep" work???
>>
>> Never hurts, but could your time be spent getting off the lee shore,
>> using land to mask the storm, heading for deeper water?
>>
>> BTW you can use the motor to take some of the force off the anchor, but
>> take it easy you do not want to run over the rode and loose both the
>> anchor and motor. -mjm
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-
>> > bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Thorn
>> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:29 PM
>> > To: Rhodes 22 List Members
>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
>> >
>> > GlacierRon, Dave, Bill or anybody:
>> >
>> > You have me thinking about anchors and not getting any work done  :)
>> >
>> > Suppose I'm out in the Pamlico Sound, with it's mucky bottom in 20' of
>> > water
>> > and a squall comes up.  Would it help to use the lunch hook, a 10#
>> steel
>> > mushroom anchor with a 3/8" nylon rode, as a Kellet  shackled to the
>> storm
>> > anchor rode?   The storm anchor is FX11 Fortress with 16' of 1/4"
>> proof
>> > coil
>> > chain plus 3/8" three strand nylon rode?  Or, could it just make
>> things
>> > worse?
>> >
>> > Any thoughts welcome.
>> >
>> > PT
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
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