[Rhodes22-list] Heave-To
Wallace Buck
tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 16 09:42:49 EST 2006
Bill & Mary Lou,
I think the sea conditions would have something to do with how well the R22
would ride Hove To in 40 knots. I am guessing sails are furled right? The
size, direction, and frequency of waves can really vary. Have you ever read
about the Atlantic crossing of Tinkerbelle? Tinkerbelle was a 13 foot
sailboat sailed from US to England. The skipper used sea anchors (bucket
tied off bow) for almost days on in and sat inside cabin.
I don't think it would be the calm ride Bill suggests hove to at 40 knots in
rough confused seas. Also a furled genny and furled IMF main really
shouldn't be flying at 40 knots. If you want to ride out with sails up you
need to have storm sails designed for such conditions. Then you would have
to make sure the boat tracks in a manner that wouldn't allow waves to knock
down.
However I do think you could ride out a short 40 knot storm. Heck with good
(heavy) crew a true storm jib and furled main you could sail in 40 knots.
But I wouldn't want to heave to for hours off shore in 40 knots. I would
think a sea anchor would provide more comfort and less wear and tear on crew
and equipment. Off course if there is a lee shore to worry about ......
Wally
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Heave-To
>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:46:28 -0500
>
>Mary Lou,
>
>Roger did not agree with me on Heaving To. His response is below, and my
>response to him above:
>
>Roger,
>
>I will, of course, save and ponder your reply. I wonder if this is an
>instance where having an IMF makes a difference?
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
>To: <rhodes-list at sailnet.net>
>Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 3:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [rhodes-list] Heaving to was: Thunderstorm on the Neuse
>
>
>Bill,
>
>My experience with heaving to in a Rhodes 22 is that it works just fine
>until the winds are stronger than about 40 knots. Above that wind speed,
>any canvas is too much (actually the bare mast is too much!) & the boat
>will
>tend to suffer repeated knockdowns. You're really outside the design
>envelope for the boat. But, in such conditions I've found lying to a sea
>anchor in deep water or an anchor in shallow water with the engine
>providing
>a little forward thrust against the storm works pretty well. I would
>imagine the upper end of this technique would be when the swells are so big
>that the boat is rolling 180 deg side-to-side in the waves. I hope I never
>have to explore this end of the envelope.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>Mary Lou Troy wrote:
>
>>Bill,
>>How far, how fast and in what direction do you drift when hove-to? I'd be
>>interested in hearing your technique again. We've never tried it in higher
>>winds (above 15 knots). In lighter air when we've had time to experiment
>>the best we've done is slow our progress to a knot or so. If I remember
>>correctly we had a heck of a time even getting her to do that. It's been a
>>long time so I don't remember the details. Will your boat stay hove to in
>>short steep waves?
>>
>>Unfortunately heaving to isn't an option when you are already anchored
>>which is when we've experienced most of our winds over 30 knots.
>>
>>Mary Lou
>>1991 R22 Fretless
>>Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
>>
>>At 02:47 PM 1/14/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>>Peter,
>>>
>>>Any time I find myself on the water in winds over 30 kts. I will
>>>heave-to. Let the wind work for you instead of against you. I won't
>>>anchor; I won't storm anchor; I won't drogue. I won't fight the wind.
>>>I consider it a losing battle. Anchor considerations in high winds are
>>>only (as far as I'm concerned) for when you're not on your boat.
>>>When hove-to, the high freeboard on a Rhodes actually works for you, not
>>>against you. I spent a summer heaving-to. It might have been before you
>>>joined the list. I highly recommend it for the things you seem to be
>>>most worried about. You can do it for days on end, if need be. You can
>>>set it and retreat to the cabin. The boat remains calm and peaceful even
>>>in awful storms. It's like creating a situation where you remain in the
>>>eye of the hurricane.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mary Lou,
>>>>
>>>>It's quite windy and blowing in cold here and could get as low as 28
>>>>tonight! My skipper cancelled the NYRA winter series racing at
>>>>Blackbeard
>>>>SC on the Neuse River, so I spent most of the morning messing around
>>>>with
>>>>that Anchor Catenary program Ron attached.
>>>>
>>>>Using my imagined problem of being stuck out in the Pamlico, out of
>>>>sight of
>>>>land, in 20' of water over a muck bottom, using Raven's storm anchor
>>>>(FX11,
>>>>16' chain, 150' 3/8" three stand nylon all out), and setting the Kellet
>>>>at
>>>>75', here are the results:
>>>>
>>>> Kellet = 0# = 95.2#
>>>> Kellet = 10 = 131.5
>>>> Kellet = 20 = 168.0
>>>>
>>>>Now it's just a matter of trying to figure out what these results
>>>>actually
>>>>mean. I'm a builder, not a genius. My guess is that, with the catenary
>>>>shape described by the graph shown on the catenary analyzer program,
>>>>those
>>>>are the various horizontal thrust forces holding each particular
>>>>catenary
>>>>profile shape in equilibrium against an infinitely strong anchor. So, a
>>>>10#
>>>>Kellet provides a 38% increase and a 20# Kellet provides a 76% increase
>>>>in
>>>>the force needed to hold each's catenary shape versus no Kellet at all.
>>>>If
>>>>my guess is right, then a Kellet does help quite a bit, adding
>>>>significantly
>>>>to the "shock absorber effect" Rik wrote about.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, we use a 10# steel mushroom anchor on 3/8 nylon as a lunch hook.
>>>>Works
>>>>well in any mud bottom and doesn't seem to snag on the stumps in Kerr
>>>>Lake
>>>>the Army Corp of Engineers forgot to grub out before they filled the
>>>>lake in
>>>>the '60s.
>>>>
>>>>So... I'm thinking about modifying the 10# mushroom anchor with another
>>>>quick link (through its nylon rode eye) and a big S hook to ride down
>>>>the
>>>>storm anchor rode as a make-shift Kellet. This capital investment might
>>>>be
>>>>a whopping $5, so there's not much to loose by trying. A possible
>>>>enhancement is to melt down some lead tire weights on a Coleman stove
>>>>outside and pour 2 or 3 cups of hot lead weight into the mushroom bell.
>>>>Maybe that's too obsessive-- even for me.
>>>>
>>>>The big worry is getting caught halfway to Ocracoke in a summer storm.
>>>>Out
>>>>in the middle you lose sight of land for about an hour and there's no
>>>>place
>>>>to hide. The wind driven waves are short and square. They come up
>>>>fast, so
>>>>having a method ready to keep the bow to the wind would be very good
>>>>indeed.
>>>>That Boy Scout training never goes away.
>>>>
>>>>Late last October at Silver Lake on Ocracoke at 5:30am a local storm hit
>>>>our
>>>>trailer sailor group. 55 Knot winds were reported on WX. Raven, with
>>>>the
>>>>pop top cover up, heeled 30 degrees against her docklines. It was gone
>>>>in
>>>>30 minutes, but imagine being out in that!
>>>>
>>>>PT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mltroy at verizon.net>
>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:41 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Peter,
>>>>>My purely theoretical take on this - having never used a kellet, is
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>might help - particularly if the winds were not very steady or if there
>>>>>
>>>>was
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>wave action.
>>>>>
>>>>>Have you used the mushroom much as a lunch hook?
>>>>>
>>>>>Mary Lou
>>>>>1991 R22 Fretless
>>>>>Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>At 04:29 PM 1/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>GlacierRon, Dave, Bill or anybody:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You have me thinking about anchors and not getting any work done :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Suppose I'm out in the Pamlico Sound, with it's mucky bottom in 20' of
>>>>>>
>>>>water
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>and a squall comes up. Would it help to use the lunch hook, a 10#
>>>>>>steel
>>>>>>mushroom anchor with a 3/8" nylon rode, as a Kellet shackled to the
>>>>>>
>>>>storm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>anchor rode? The storm anchor is FX11 Fortress with 16' of 1/4"
>>>>>>proof
>>>>>>
>>>>coil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>chain plus 3/8" three strand nylon rode? Or, could it just make
>>>>>>things
>>>>>>worse?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any thoughts welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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