[Rhodes22-list] Go-To Anchor

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Mon Jan 16 13:05:18 EST 2006


Wally,

I noted your silence, and I know your position.  This bunch is willing 
to get passionate about anything--even issues directly related to sailing.

We tend to all read the same sources, and we tend to pass information 
back and forth between ourselves.  Things get lost in the pass-offs like 
the kid game of "telephone".  By the time a late-comer like me gets into 
the discussion I'm talking only to people who have never tried the 
advice they are giving, and who have never personally experienced the 
problems they are advising against.

It takes a while before you come to realize that you are getting advice 
from people who "don't know what they are talking about" in a literal 
sense. 

This is particularly true with regard to the R-22.  The boat is unique 
in many ways, and conventional wisdom does not apply.  Every now and 
again Stan pops up into a discussion and says "that is not true with 
this boat" but most people ignore his opinion and go right back to what 
they read 2 years ago in Sail Magazine talking about a completely 
different boat in a completely different situation.  Stan seems to have 
tired of straightening out misconceptions, and he just doesn't have the 
time to pop up every time someone takes a position based on knowledge 
that does not apply to this boat.

This anchoring discussion illustrates this point.  The underlying reason 
for using huge anchors and heavy chain is that this allows for less 
scope in calm conditions in crowded anchorages.  The original-source 
anchoring information generally explains that this is the reason for the 
thrust of their recommendations.  But these explanations tend to get 
lost during the exchange of information.  In this last anchoring test, 
for example,  PS tested at the recommended 7:1 scope and then at 3:1 
saying that no one actually anchors at 7:1.  But I never saw a break-out 
explaining which anchors performed better at the longer scope.

I always anchor at a 7:1 scope when I'm serious about anchoring.  In my 
opinion, scope is the best anchoring protection you can get when you 
need it.

Most anchoring advice is based on the assumption that the boat is more 
than 30 feet long, weighs over 15,000 pounds, and has an 8 foot keel.  
If you weigh 15,000 pounds, 600 pounds of anchor chain is no big deal.  
If you have an 8 foot keel you won't anchor in less than 10 feet of 
water at low tide--which around my neighborhood means 19 feet of water 
at high tide.

Soooo...7:1 scope means that your anchor rode + boat length will be, at 
a minimum, (22X7)+30=184 feet; and you will need twice that amount of 
room so your boat can swing.  All boats must stay a football field apart 
to avoid the illusion that they are "dragging anchors" when in fact they 
are swinging at different speeds due to current and windage variables.

Even if that amount of room were available (which it is not) boaters 
don't give each other that amount of room--they drop anchor much closer 
than a football field away, and they reduce scope to avoid hitting each 
other when they swing.  At 3:1 scope (which is completely unreliable as 
the wind picks up) these boats still require 96 feet of rode --200 feet 
between boats.

But a Rhodes 22 doesn't need to be a football field, or even 200 feet 
away from the next boat.  Our keel is only 2 feet deep.  So we can 
anchor in 11 feet of water + 3 feet of freeboard--(14X7)+22=120 feet of 
rode at 7:1 scope.  By using Bahamian anchoring or even 3 anchor 
techniques, the R-22 will swing in slightly more than 150 feet, always 
maintain at least 7:1 scope, and be more reliably anchored in any wind 
conditions than larger boats on chain rodes with much heavier anchors on 
shorter scope.

Your actual experiences on the water prompted me to start testing these 
theories in the first place.  This exchange has pointed me to many 
people, far more knowledgeable that I, who confirm that chain anchor 
rode does not confer most of the benefits commonly attributed to it, and 
that in almost all situations, an all rope rode is safer than either an 
all chain rode or a rope/chain rode in the waters I where I anchor.

Thanks for speaking up.

Bill Effros

Wallace Buck wrote:

> Bill,
>
> I have kept quiet on this go around because the last anchor thread got 
> out fo control. :-)
>
> If you remember I said then for my conditions (muddy clay bottom) I 
> found chain was not needed and more trouble than it was worth. I use 
> an anchor that recommends no chain with nylon rhode...I can't remember 
> the brand and it works well. I also have a small mushroom for lunch 
> hook but usually we just drift for lunch so it doesn't get used much. 
> I have a danforth knockoff with chain in laz but I haven't used it in 
> over 3 years.
>
> Different conditions call for different techniques. It helps to be 
> prepared and understand the various anchoring techniques. Some 
> conditions don't require chain. I hate dealing with the red clay. 
> Dipping rhode doesn't get all of the mud off.
>
> Wally
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Go-To Anchor
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:54:05 -0500
>>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> No need to state you're not an expert around here--we don't take 
>> expertise in anything too seriously.  You just take a shot and then 
>> duck.  Someone will soon tell you, in no uncertain terms, that you're 
>> no expert.
>>
>> Thanks for the tug-test site (even though it didn't come through 
>> until the next post).  I've seen the tug test before, but I forgot 
>> where it was.  (I had to put the address back together to get to the 
>> site.)
>>
>> For those who didn't go to the site, please note that several of the 
>> anchors obtaining the highest ratings did so with all rope rodes, and 
>> that the 21 lb. Fortress failed to set at all with a Rope/Chain rode.
>>
>> The 25 lb. WM did not set either, with an all chain rode.
>>
>> Nor the 16 lb. Spade with all chain rode.
>>
>> Out of 17 anchors tested, only 4 set.  3 of the 4 that set had all 
>> rope rodes.  The 4th was all chain.  The most powerful set was 
>> obtained with an all nylon rope rode.
>>
>> The tug came to a stop; dropped the anchor and rode overboard, 
>> drifted in the wind to set the anchor, and then gradually powered up 
>> to test the power of the anchor, and when it would start to drag.  
>> This is exactly the way I learned to set an anchor, as opposed to the 
>> PS test method, except that our boat can't generate enough power to 
>> drag a properly set anchor.  (The tug had a 1200 hp engine and a 72 
>> inch propeller.)
>>
>> It turns out Creative Marine didn't care much for the PS tests, 
>> either.  Quoting from the site Dennis pointed to:
>>
>> "Tests previously made by Practical Sailor and Powerboat Reports in 
>> purported mud were admitted to have been in 18 inches of soup over 
>> gravel. This turned out to be a gravel test. The PS/PBR tests have 
>> all been flawed in that the anchors tested were always set and pulled 
>> with the rode leading ashore where it was attached to a dynamometer. 
>> The scopes as a result were equivalent to 100 to I since the rodes 
>> were laying on the bottom. The Bruce, CQR, Delta and Danforth types 
>> had not been designed as penetrating anchors. Their purpose is to 
>> penetrate the bottom on more than two feet. The rodes laying on the 
>> bottom favor this type of anchors, and thus the PS/PBR tests showed 
>> these anchors to good advantage.
>>
>> Boaters however seldom extend their anchor rode's scopes to as much 
>> as 7 to 1, let alone 100 to 1. More likely it is 5 to1 or less. The 
>> Max and Super Max anchors were designed to set and penetrate deeper 
>> and deeper as more strain is applied. When they are set with a 100 to 
>> I scope as in the cases of the PS/PBR tests, they will not perform as 
>> they were designed to do. That is why the ABS tests from an actual 
>> tugboat showed the true characteristics and capabilities of the 
>> anchors tested. The scopes of 6 to I were used for anchors whose 
>> manufacturers recommended 7 to 1, since it was the medium between 
>> what boaters normally would use, 5 to 1."
>>
>> Thanks, Dennis.
>>
>> The prosecution rests.
>>
>> At least for tonight.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis McNeely wrote:
>>
>>> I don't claim to be an expert - but ran across this link for soft mud
>>> anchoring. The site is commercially sponsored, but gives a link to the
>>> actual test results for a variety of anchors set and dragged behind 
>>> a 1200
>>> hp tug.
>>>
>>> Note that the anchors weighted from 16.5 to 52 pounds, but 
>>> apparently the
>>> manufacturers recommend those respective sizes for a boat 33 to 38 
>>> feet in
>>> length (!)
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:07 PM
>>> To: R22 List
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Go-To Anchor
>>>
>>>
>>> I set up my anchor rodes with and without chain.  As noted last year 
>>> I had more than a dozen anchors on board at one point.  I set up 
>>> hardware so that I could quickly snap things together and take them 
>>> apart.  I expected to be mixing and matching all summer.  I have 
>>> anchors and rode all over my boat.
>>>
>>> I was very surprised, at some point roughly half way through the 
>>> summer, to discover that I kept coming back to the same set-up over 
>>> and over.
>>>
>>> My Go-To anchor is a 2 1/2 pound Guardian (made by Fortress, but the 
>>> less expensive model), fully assembled, with floating anchor rode 
>>> (3/8"? 1/2"? -- I'm not sure), no chain, pre-spliced eye, stored in 
>>> a Rubbermaid container under a cockpit seat, not fastened to 
>>> anything at the bitter end, deployed from the stern, tied off on a 
>>> stern cleat, set from the stern, then walked to the bow.
>>>
>>> I have removed all vinyl clad anchors from my boat except for the 
>>> "bullet" anchors which are essentially nothing more than shaped lead 
>>> covered with vinyl.  They weigh 15 lbs each, and can be used as 
>>> kellets or paper weights.  So far they have only been tested as 
>>> paper weights and they are more than adequate for this task.  The 
>>> cladding completely defeats the design of pointy or sharp edged 
>>> anchors by blunting the points and the edges.
>>>
>>> My Go-To anchor is always on board, and always at the ready.  It is 
>>> easy to deploy and easy to retrieve.  It always sets properly, and 
>>> has been tested in the most extreme conditions I would ever use an 
>>> anchor.  It has never come close to starting to deform, and has 
>>> always been more than adequate for holding our boat.  It often comes 
>>> up clean, but if not, a couple of dunks is all it takes to make it 
>>> like new.  There hasn't been any corrosion.  I don't take the time 
>>> to wash it off after use, I just put it back under the seat.  I have 
>>> 2 guardians; the Go-To, and another, disassembled, in the Laz. and a 
>>> Fortress FX-7 on the bow, detached from anchor line in the bow tray.
>>>
>>> I also have 3 folding grapnels of different sizes, and a "sand 
>>> screw" for beaches.
>>>
>>> As mentioned previously, I have never had the need for anything more 
>>> than the Go-To, and doubt I ever will.  I plan to experiment next 
>>> summer with variations on "Bahamian" anchoring where you set 
>>> multiple anchors at different angles from a single point on board so 
>>> that when the wind shifts you drop off one anchor and pull on 
>>> another.  I believe this set up is stronger both in terms of rode 
>>> and ground tackle than a single anchor and rode with the same 
>>> rating.  From Ben and Bob's accounts of hurricane anchoring, and 
>>> what I have read, I think I would set multiple anchors in hurricanes 
>>> and then quickly get off the boat.
>>>
>>> I kept going for the Go-To because it is so easy to handle.  I still 
>>> have plenty of anchor rode with chain, but it always comes up dirty, 
>>> so I pick the all rope rode, given my druthers.  The only thing I 
>>> like about the chain is that it provides a warning before the anchor 
>>> breaks out of the water.  What I don't like is that you can't "feel" 
>>> the bottom the way you can with an all rope rode.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
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