[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

stan stan at rhodes22.com
Sun Jun 25 11:34:55 EDT 2006


Wally,

(while I am waiting for new Rhodie Jeff Herbert to come back from his pick 
up test sail) Re pointing:  The back say tension adjuster should allow you 
to make the jib stay as tight as you can hand-make it.  The double back 
stays are the stays I feel should be made as hand tight as you dare (using 
the rapid tension line system) because our mast head rig in turn then makes 
the jib stay amazingly straight.   The other element of closer pointing is 
being able to trim the jib in closer to the boat's center line.  The Rhodes 
provides for three different jib sheet lead positions:  Sailing with full 
genoa limits pointing because the sail has to remain outside the spreaders 
so trimming is limited.  The genoa sheets run outside the upper shrouds and 
back to the cars on the gunnels tracks (and to the genoa winches and clam 
cleats).  A second lead set on the cabin trunk sides are used with the jib 
sheets inside the upper shrouds to fair leads (on older boats to cars on 
shorter tracks) and on to cabin side cam cleats (on older boats the sheets 
still then go back to the genoa winches).  For closer pointing still, there 
are sets of leads and cleats on top of the cabin where the jib sheets are 
inside all of the shrouds.  This three leads system allows progressively 
closer pointing with the trade off of having to employ a progressively 
smaller head sail (more furling of the genoa)  Some older non recycled boats 
may not have this third set of jib sheet leads.  And, of course, while the 
boat will perform nicely with the board up, for better pointing it should be 
down.  I know you know all of this but I have run across a few who do not. 
Newer boats also have slightly greater fin areas for better pointing..

stan/gbi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David


> Bill,
>
> Tunig your rig is in no way like slamming a single car door. Your car 
> doors are independent. It would be like slamming all 4 car doors using 
> equal force.
>
> Did you read Roger's post in the FAQ. He goes through his process and 
> answers most of your questions. I have no idea if he is right.
>
> Many on this list complain they can't point high into the wind. I am of 
> the opinion that most of these people have boats way out of tune. I also 
> think the GB furler doesn't allow you to tighten jib luff properly 
> compounding the situation.
>
> You know I like to keep it simple but if you don't have experience having 
> a way to measure is helpful. Brad uses an example of experienced mechanic 
> not using torque wrench. I wonder if he would wants all the guys to go 
> through training never using a torque wrench. If you don't have a point of 
> reference (experience helps!) you are just maKing a wild guess.
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>David
>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:10:34 -0400
>>
>>Oh, please...
>>
>>This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only have 
>>to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder slam, but you 
>>are not accomplishing anything good for the car by slamming the door 
>>harder.
>>
>>We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be 
>>calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They don't 
>>measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>>
>>Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>>
>>Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds when 
>>the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 pounds total, 
>>divided by 9 shrouds?
>>
>>The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed to be 
>>the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>>
>>If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays register 
>>200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>>
>>A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>>TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>Ed,
>>>
>>>Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone should 
>>>tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people tightned hand 
>>>tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different measurements. I must 
>>>admit that mine are tighter than hand tight....not much. Lee side shrouds 
>>>still go slack. Sloppy or over tight, either way creates proplems.
>>>
>>>Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his specs? 
>>>Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know this? I may 
>>>have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
>>>
>>>Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
>>>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>David:
>>>>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you with 
>>>> where
>>>>you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, aka,
>>>>General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With 
>>>>Rose's
>>>>permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of this 
>>>>web
>>>>site. See:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
>>>>
>>>>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the guy 
>>>> who
>>>>used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the instructions
>>>>promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use just 
>>>>follow
>>>>his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
>>>>electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  The 
>>>>point
>>>>Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What Rummy
>>>>said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
>>>>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very 
>>>> wrong.
>>>>That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped racing
>>>>sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast without a
>>>>compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has 
>>>>created a
>>>>problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not 
>>>>reshaped
>>>>permenantly.
>>>>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use stays to 
>>>> keep
>>>>the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
>>>>
>>>>Ed K
>>>>Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>--
>>>>View this message in context: 
>>>>http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
>>>>Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
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