[Rhodes22-list] Bonnie Fuel Pump Problems

[Brad Haslett]

Art,

That's alcohol abuse!

Over the years I've flown with a lot of Navy P-3 drivers.  Who or what
chases submarines now?

Brad


On 11/8/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> I was in a P2/P3 squadron too many years ago, the P2V converted from 2
> props into 2 props & 2 jets outboard.  With a full load the plane just
> couldn't perform adequately on take-off, even at sea level.
>
> We hosted a P2 reserve squadron at Jax on one of their drill weekends and
> they used the jets for assist, unfortunately loaded to the hilt with Puerto
> Rican rum.  It climbed about 25' and then settled neatly into the St. John's
> River.  What a sight!
>
> Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Nov 8, 2006 8:45 PM
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bonnie Fuel Pump Problems
> >
> >Hank,
> >
> >I used to fly the Swearigen Metroliner (we fondly referred to it as the
> >Polish cruise missle), the only civilian aircraft that came from the
> factory
> >with a JATO bottle installed in the tail.  I never got to fire one.  My
> >guess is that a JATO on a doctor killer would win you a Darwin Award.  On
> >the other hand, flying the "San Antonio Sewer Pipe", otherwise known as a
> >Metroliner, should put one in the running for a Darwin by itself.
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >PS - I think the discussion on fuel lines may be on the money.  We'll
> look
> >at anything at this point.
> >
> >
> >On 11/8/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Cool!!  JATO bottles on the "Doctor Killer".  Brad, what kink of Rate
> of
> >> Climb do you think you can get with this new mod?
> >>
> >> Hank
> >>
> >> On 11/8/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > USAF had a similar problem with the B-47.  Do what they did:
> >> >
> >> > Strap on JATO bottles for take off, fly at 90% power.
> >> >
> >> > Deploy an "approach chute" for landings.
> >> >
> >> > Bill Effros
> >> >
> >> > Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> >> > > Hank and Brad,
> >> > >
> >> > > The situation the you refer to is found in a carb (normally
> aspirated)
> >> > > equipped engine fuel bowl fill problem.  Either the float level is
> set
> >> > too
> >> > > low or the bad pump doesn't have enough pressure to open the inlet
> >> > valve.  A
> >> > > 12 pound output (if the gauge is correct) should be plenty of
> pressure
> >> > to do
> >> > > the job.
> >> > >
> >> > > I still think that the problem is related to the line going to the
> >> > pump.  If
> >> > > the line is kinked, the pump may have difficulty drawing enough
> fuel
> >> > through
> >> > > the high resistance of the line when at low RPM (reduced
> >> output).  This
> >> > is
> >> > > akin to trying to breath through a narrow hose compared to a large
> >> bore
> >> > hose
> >> > > when under water.  It is much harder to suck through the narrow
> >> > tubing.  The
> >> > > electric pump, which I presume is located near the tank, pushes the
> >> fuel
> >> > > through the line at full (30 PSI?) pressure, regardless of engine
> >> speed.
> >> > >
> >> > > Is the problem related to both (or several) tanks?  If it is, the
> >> > problem
> >> > > may be in the tank selector.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > From: "Hank" <hnw555 at gmail.com>
> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:31 PM
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> Brad,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> A slow drip, say 1 drop every 5-10 seconds, is normal even when
> the
> >> > boat
> >> > >>
> >> > > is
> >> > >
> >> > >> not running.  The only way to eliminate drips completely is to
> >> install
> >> > a
> >> > >> dripless shaft seal.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> IRT, your toy, it makes me think of the old joke, Doctor it hurts
> >> when
> >> > I
> >> > >> cough.  So don't Cough!  So don't bring the idle down below
> >> 1000!  Easy
> >> > >>
> >> > > fix,
> >> > >
> >> > >> next problem?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Seriously, I used to have a similar problem on a Chevy Truck,
> except
> >> in
> >> > >> reverse.  At idle and slow speeds the engine ran fine, but at
> highway
> >> > >>
> >> > > speeds
> >> > >
> >> > >> the engine would sputter.  The pump was in failing mode and
> supplied
> >> a
> >> > >> reduced amount of fuel, which was fine at lower speeds, but not
> >> > sufficient
> >> > >> at highway speeds.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Here is an idea.  In a regular carburetor, the pump sends fuel up
> to
> >> a
> >> > >> supply chamber in teh carburetor that is there to react to
> immediate
> >> > >>
> >> > > changes
> >> > >
> >> > >> in throttle settings.  It sounds like your pump quits working
> below
> >> > 1000
> >> > >>
> >> > > rpm
> >> > >
> >> > >> and the engine dies once the feed chamber has been emptied.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hank
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Hank & Rummy,
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> The issue is that the dripping continues when the engine is shut
> >> off.
> >> > >>>
> >> > > In
> >> > >
> >> > >>> fact, it was dripping when I arrived at the boat after not having
> >> been
> >> > >>>
> >> > > run
> >> > >
> >> > >>> for a week.  It has always dripped some while running, as it is
> >> > supposed
> >> > >>> to,
> >> > >>> but never that much.  What causes it to drip stationary?
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> While you're solving that problem, I just got back from the
> airport
> >> to
> >> > >>>
> >> > > fly
> >> > >
> >> > >>> my airplane.  The new engine driven pump works fine at full power
> >> all
> >> > >>>
> >> > > the
> >> > >
> >> > >>> way down to idle at 1000 rpm.  However, comma, when you pull the
> >> idle
> >> > >>>
> >> > > back
> >> > >
> >> > >>> to 700, where it is correctly set, the fuel pressure off the
> engine
> >> > pump
> >> > >>> stabilizes at 12 pounds, which is fine, then after 30 seconds
> >> suddenly
> >> > >>> goes
> >> > >>> to zero and the engine quits.  If you can flip on the electric
> pump
> >> > fast
> >> > >>> enough it comes back to life.  The mystery continues.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Don't you just love toys!
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Brad
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On 11/8/06, Hank < hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> Brad,
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> All standard stuffing boxes should drip some.  It is required to
> >> keep
> >> > >>>>
> >> > > it
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> lubricated and cooled.  My Islander 36 always had some water in
> the
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>> bilge
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> and that is normal for a lot of boats.  I didn't worry about it
> >> > >>>>
> >> > > freezing
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> as
> >> > >>>> it was not "enclosed" such as inside a pipe or engine block and
> >> > >>>>
> >> > > couldn't
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> rupture anything.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> That being said, if you find that you do have stuffing box
> issues,
> >> I
> >> > >>>> highly
> >> > >>>> recommend changing to a dripless system.  After, I switched
> mine, I
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>> never
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> had any water coming in from there.  Check out
> >> > >>>> http://www.shaftseal.com/index.html
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Hank
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> Hank,
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Good question.  I'm thinking the water is getting by the
> stuffing
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > > box
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> and
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> finding the next weakest link.  The sequence is transmission -
> >> brass
> >> > >>>>> coupling - rubber enclosed shaft? - and I think the stuffing
> box.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > > To
> >> > >
> >> > >>> be
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> honest, I didn't have time to troubleshoot the problem.  The
> >> steady
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>> drip
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> is
> >> > >>>>> coming from the brass coupling just downstream from the
> >> tranny.  It
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>> has
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> two
> >> > >>>>> fittings that tighten against each other but I didn't have the
> >> tools
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>> to
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> try
> >> > >>>>> it. The water accumulates to the top of the bilge and then
> vents
> >> > >>>>> overboard.
> >> > >>>>> I'll need to fix or haul before the first good freeze.  I keep
> a
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>> heater
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> on
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> at 40 degrees when I'm gone during the winter but yesterday the
> >> > >>>>> electricity
> >> > >>>>> at the docks was off.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Any more ideas?
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Brad
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> On 11/8/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Brad,
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> How could the drive shaft be dripping where it connects to the
> >> > >>>>>> transmission?  Where is the water coming in from?  I started
> to
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>> think
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> stuffing box, but it should be lower than the tranmission
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > > coupling,
> >> > >
> >> > >>> so
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>> that
> >> > >>>>>> shouldn't be a possibility.  Is the water coming in from above
> >> the
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>> engine
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> and then just collecting and dripping off of the shaft?
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Just some ideas.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Hank
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett < flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Finally,  some good news to brighten-up a difficult
> yesterday.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > We
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>> closed
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> on
> >> > >>>>>>> the sale of our shop building near the lake and sold our
> tractor
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> we
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> used
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>> bushog the place as well. The buyer for the tractor kept me
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> waiting
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> over
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> four hours and then did some last minute haggling over a
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> previously
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>> agreed
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> upon price.  Forunately for him I came unarmed. The bad news
> is
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> that
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> my
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> boat
> >> > >>>>>>> had water in the bilge for the first time ever.  The drive
> shaft
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> is
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>>> steadily
> >> > >>>>>>> dripping where it connects to the transmission.  This may be
> a
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>> result
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> of
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>> grounding last year.  Anyway, the repair will probably
> require
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > it
> >> > >
> >> > >>> to
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> be
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> hauled, which  is a good idea anyway to inspect for damage.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > I've
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> been
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> operating on the theory of "what you don't know can't hurt
> you"
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> but
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> that
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> game has been played long enough.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> The DC-10 is going away in the next couple of years and I
> have
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > to
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> make
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> leap into the digital age one way or the other.  I have been
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>> predicting
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> this
> >> > >>>>>>> event all along and damned if I wasn't right.  Here is
> something
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> to
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> look
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> forward to.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Brad
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> --------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> *Company Cancels A380 Order *
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> MEMPHIS, Tenn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--FedEx Express, a unit of
> FedEx
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>> Corp.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> (NYSE:
> >> > >>>>>>> FDX), announced today an agreement with The Boeing Company
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > (NYSE:
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> BA)
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> acquire 15 new Boeing 777 Freighter aircraft with options to
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>> purchase
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> an
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> additional 15 aircraft. The decision to purchase the 777F was
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > made
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>> after
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Airbus announced significant delays in delivery of the A380.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > FedEx
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>> Express
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> notified Airbus that it has cancelled its order for 10
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > A380-800Fs.
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>>> "Global demand for air cargo and express services continues
> to
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> grow
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>>> rapidly
> >> > >>>>>>> and FedEx has made significant investments in our network to
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > meet
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>>> customers'needs and fulfill our business objectives.
> Therefore,
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > it
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> was
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> necessary and
> >> > >>>>>>> prudent for us to acquire the Boeing 777 Freighter." said
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> Frederick
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> W.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Smith, chairman, president and chief executive officer, FedEx
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> Corp.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>> "The
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> availability and delivery timing of this aircraft, coupled
> with
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> its
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>>> attractive payload range and economics, make this choice the
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > best
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>> decision
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> for FedEx, its customers, shareowners and employees."
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> FedEx Express continues to be Airbus' largest wide-body
> airplane
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> customer
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> and will add additional new and used Airbus wide-body
> aircraft
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > to
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> its
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> fleet
> >> > >>>>>>> in coming years. Six new A300-600 aircraft are scheduled to
> join
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> the
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>> FedEx
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> fleet in 2007.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> *Boeing 777*
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> The Boeing 777 Freighter is the world's largest twin-engine
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > cargo
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>> aircraft
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> with a range of more than 6,100 nautical miles and a revenue
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> payload
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>>> capacity of 171,000 pounds. This represents a 2,200 nautical
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > mile
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>> increase
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> in range and an additional 8,500 pounds of revenue payload
> over
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> the
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>>> MD-11F,
> >> > >>>>>>> which is FedEx's primary long-haul aircraft. These advantages
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > will
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>>> result
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> in
> >> > >>>>>>> more non-stop, point-to-point transoceanic routes with
> shorter
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>> flight
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> times,
> >> > >>>>>>> enabling improved service offerings to FedEx customers. FedEx
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>> Express
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> is
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> expected to take delivery of four of the 777 aircraft in
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > calendar
> >> > >
> >> > >>>> year
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> 2009,
> >> > >>>>>>> eight in 2010 and the remaining three in 2011.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> "The Boeing 777F will allow FedEx Express to fly directly
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > > between
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>> major
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> markets and hubs in Asia, Europe and the U.S. with more
> freight
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>> and
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> in
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> less
> >> > >>>>>>> time than it takes today, improving fuel efficiency and
> lowering
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>> total
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> operating costs," said David J. Bronczek, president and chief
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>> executive
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> officer, FedEx Express.
> >> > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org , Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org , Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> __________________________________________________
> >> > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
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>