[Rhodes22-list] Pointing

[Bill Effros]

Wally,

What I was trying to do was to pull the long 175 jib past the mast on 
the windward side, with the fatter part of the sail on the leeward 
side.  I know about "slot theory", but the 175 is cut so radically in 
the exposed portion that I'm not sure the slot effect applies.  I was 
just trying to get out the most sail in a pointing situation to go 
faster at a given point of sail than I could otherwise with the sails I 
have.  Still don't know if it will work.

What does work is Stan's new battened sail, which puts out more canvas 
in a pointing situation and drives the boat much better than the smaller 
standard sail.

Bill Effros

TN Rhodey wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I have experiemented with barber hauler rig as well. This creates 
> somes problems unless you reroute sheet. Once you snatch sheet and 
> pull back you will in effect have 3 jib sheets (on lee side) coming 
> into the cockpit. Really it would be just one line but it will be 
> doubled up inside shrouds and rest of sheet outside the shroud. The 
> other option would be to snatch sheet and adjust using the part of 
> line outside shrouds. This would be bad idea.
>
> Wally
>
>
>> From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing
>> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:27:56 -0500
>>
>> "It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
>> racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions on
>> their boats quickly and efficiently.  With long jib sheets you might not
>> even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle with
>> the snatch block."
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> That's quite interesting, but I'm not sure exactly what you are talking
>> about here.  Are you using some kind of  Barber hauler to pull the 
>> jib more
>> inboard for a tighter sheeting angle?  If so, I would like to know more.
>> Where exactly do you tack the snatch block and how do you adjust it?
>>
>> PT
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:10 PM
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing
>>
>>
>> > I don't race, so, for me, pointing is mainly an intellectual 
>> curiosity.
>> >
>> > I can point dead into the wind should I choose to do so.  Of 
>> course, at
>> > this heading the wind will push me and my boat backward, so it is not
>> > particularly useful except when backing into a  mooring after slightly
>> > overshooting, or setting up a hove-to.
>> >
>> > As I fall off the wind, the boat goes forward faster and faster.  My
>> > understanding of racing is that you must constantly calculate whether
>> > you should fall further off the wind, and go faster, or point more
>> > directly toward the destination you are trying to reach and go slower.
>> >
>> > It is clear to me that a J-Boat can point more directly into the wind
>> > and go faster than I can go when pointing in the exact same direction.
>> > On the other hand, when the wind dies down, and I unfurl my 175, there
>> > are many points of sail on which I can beat a similarly sized J-boat
>> > that is not flying more sail than I've got.
>> >
>> > I understand that the flatter I can keep my boat, the more speed I 
>> will
>> > develop when sailing in any direction.
>> >
>> > When the 175 genny is unfurled only as far back as the mast, it has 
>> far
>> > less sail exposed to the wind than a 100 genny unfurled to the same
>> > point because of the cut of each sail.  So the 100 genny will go 
>> faster.
>> >
>> > I didn't have enough time on the water this summer to test my snatch
>> > block (remember that one?), but what I wanted to do was to clip the
>> > snatch block onto my windward rail, and pull the genny toward the
>> > windward side of the mast to see what would happen in a pointing
>> > situation.  I'll try it next year unless someone already knows it 
>> won't
>> > help.
>> >
>> > It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
>> > racers when they want to move their sails from the standard 
>> positions on
>> > their boats quickly and efficiently.  With long jib sheets you 
>> might not
>> > even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle 
>> with
>> > the snatch block.
>> >
>> > Bill Effros
>> >
>> > TN Rhodey wrote:
>> > > Rex,
>> > >
>> > > I race single handed as well. If you plan ahead rerouting jib sheets
>> > > is not a big deal. I don't race with pop-top up. I can secure tiller
>> > > and walk forward to make the change in a few seconds. I am not sure
>> > > that you really want a 175 inside the shrouds unless conditions
>> > > require furling anyway. In that case sheeting inside provides better
>> > > angles and would be worth rerouting sheets. I would think furling 
>> the
>> > > 175 just so you can sheet inside shrouds would actually slow you 
>> down
>> > > overall. Also add a vang. Proper use of vang and traveler will help
>> > > you sail flatter in windier conditions. The biggest thing I missed
>> > > with crew was the added rail weight. Also do you have a tiller
>> > > extension? Most times when racing solo I am sitting forward in the
>> > > cockpit...sometimes on the bench seat and sometimes on the rail.
>> > >
>> > > Wally
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> From: Charles Henthorn <rexh at sbcglobal.net>
>> > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
>> > >> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:54:51 -0800 (PST)
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks Slim --- forgot to mention I typically single-hand when
>> > >> racing.  Good suggestion but probably would need to start using 
>> some
>> > >> crew if I were to try re-rigging between course changes.
>> > >>      Yes I agree that a slight back-wind of the genoa helps 
>> carry it
>> > >> through to leeward -- if the sheets don't snag on the way.
>> > >>   Rex
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>> > >>   Rex,
>> > >>
>> > >> I wouldn't try the "double sheet" thing especially if you've been
>> having
>> > >> trouble getting the big 175 to come across without snagging on
>> > >> something.
>> > >> When tacking, I've found that I have to hold the jib sheet until 
>> I've
>> > >> crossed through the eye and let the wind fill up the jib before 
>> I let
>> > >> loose.
>> > >> That usually works unless it's really light air. Another 
>> solution is to
>> > >> simply roll up the jib and pull it back out after you're about. 
>> This
>> > >> can be
>> > >> done pretty fast with experienced crew. It's definitely faster than
>> > >> having
>> > >> a sheet hooked on the bow cleat and someone has to go forward. Also
>> > >> with a
>> > >> little practice you can re-rig the sheets quickly and easily. If
>> > >> you're on
>> > >> a starboard tack, re-rig the starboard (slack) sheet first. Then 
>> when
>> > >> you
>> > >> come about re-rig the other side. You might be sailing with your 
>> pop
>> top
>> > >> down but if not, just FYI, a man of average height can reach the
>> > >> sheets from
>> > >> inside the cabin rather than going forward topside.
>> > >>
>> > >> Hope this helps. Good luck.
>> > >>
>> > >> Slim
>> > >>
>> > >> On 11/28/06 3:20 PM, "Charles Henthorn" wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Anne:
>> > >> > My Rhodes ( 88 recycled by Stan this past spring) is on Freeman
>> > >> Lake, but
>> > >> > I crew for a friend on Eagle Creek many times during the season.
>> > >> I've never
>> > >> > raced on Eagle Creek. They have a large J boat contingent at 
>> Eagle
>> > >> Creek.
>> > >> > Thanks for the invite to crew. We're northwest of Indy and 
>> probably
>> > >> 3 hrs
>> > >> > from KyLake area but if I get a chance to be in your area I'll 
>> give
>> > >> you an
>> > >> > email in advance.
>> > >> > I had had some suggestions to run the rigging to the track 
>> inside the
>> > >> > outside shrouds but, with our lake lying in a snake configuration
>> > >> and our
>> > >> > distance courses being layed out around several points and tree
>> > >> lines, our
>> > >> > winds (Murphy's Law is always in play) gust or change 
>> dramatically in
>> > >> > intensity (especially in the spring and fall), having the genoa
>> > >> running
>> > >> > rigging on the inside of the shrouds takes the 'outside' option
>> > >> away when it
>> > >> > might be more effective if the winds are right. Has anyone tried
>> > >> > 'double-rigging' with sheets running both inside and outside the
>> > >> outside
>> > >> > shrouds? I think it could be done if you lighten up on the sheets
>> > >> so you're
>> > >> > not dragging a lot of weight around but, even now, I'm finding it
>> > >> difficult in
>> > >> > light winds to get that big 175 to flow over to the leeward 
>> side on
>> > >> a tack or
>> > >> > gibe without the single set of sheets finding some cleat or 
>> port or
>> > >> chainplate
>> > >> > connection on which to hang up or snag. Before I try it (next
>> > >> spring now with
>> > >> > winter
>> > >> > upon us), maybe someone has tried and found it successful or a
>> > >> complete
>> > >> > failure.
>> > >> > Rex
>> > >> >
>> > >> > anima13 wrote:
>> > >> > Rex,
>> > >> > What lake are you on? Eagle Creek?
>> > >> > I have to admit I sold my Rhodes....but I cannot give up this 
>> list,
>> > >> these
>> > >> > folks.
>> > >> > I went to a bigger boat. I have sailed all winter on my 
>> Rhodes. One
>> > >> year we
>> > >> > sailed
>> > >> > every weekend to Jan 1st and then we were out on Feb 1st.
>> > >> > Racing....I have never raced my Rhodes, except for the KY Lake
>> > >> gathering for
>> > >> > Rhodes
>> > >> > when we used to host a race here. Have to say, and I believe Rik
>> > >> Sandberg
>> > >> > would concur,
>> > >> > I could really point that boat. You might try unfurling just less
>> > >> than the
>> > >> > whole 175%,
>> > >> > like 160% or so.
>> > >> > However, you are not going to point like the Flying Scot, etc.
>> > >> Hence, PHRF!
>> > >> > Wally races his R-22.
>> > >> > I race on a team...race a J-34 now. We have raced together for
>> > >> years. Our
>> > >> > philosophy is to
>> > >> > point hard and make the shortest distance. We sheet that jib in
>> > >> tight as a
>> > >> > drum and our
>> > >> > helmsgal (John's wife Lisa) NEVER takes her eyes off the 
>> windex or
>> the
>> > >> > telltales. She is
>> > >> > not allowed to do ANYthing else. We usually tell her "up" or 
>> "off"
>> > >> so she
>> > >> > does not have to look up
>> > >> > to windex. On our long distance races she gets to rest on the
>> > >> downwind...if
>> > >> > we have enough staff.
>> > >> > We have a 100 mile race in the spring and a 50 miler in the fall.
>> > >> Lots of
>> > >> > folks from Eagle Creek
>> > >> > come here for those. A few were here last weekend and they are 
>> some
>> > >> of our
>> > >> > favorite friends.
>> > >> > Come down and crew with us next year! We are ALWAYS hunting crew.
>> > >> We require
>> > >> > a minimum of 6
>> > >> > for spinnaker. We took 9 on the 100 miler last year and were not
>> > >> crowded!
>> > >> > Too many jobs to do.
>> > >> > Anne
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> > >> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Charles
>> > >> Henthorn
>> > >> > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:10 PM
>> > >> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Ann:
>> > >> > Same here (mid-central western Indiana) --- great winds -- raced
>> > >> > Saturday --- but cried all night last night having tarped my boat
>> > >> yesterday.
>> > >> > I would have guessed your season could extend more at Ky Lake 
>> than
>> > >> here.
>> > >> > Do you race your Rhodes. I'm finding I'm very competitive on 
>> the runs
>> > >> > but can't seem to get the 175% to point up enough on the reaches.
>> > >> Do you
>> > >> > race and, if so, have you found a way to point up higher than the
>> > >> Santana's
>> > >> > and Flying Scots I try to race against?
>> > >> > Rex
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > anima13 wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Man, did we have a BLOW-OUT weekend!!!!!
>> > >> > Sailed all day Friday and 4 boats rafted up overnight.
>> > >> > Played guitar, sang, ate and drank.
>> > >> > Our friends from Indy came down so that gave it much more of a
>> > >> > party-atmosphere. Sure were some gorgeous days on KY Lake.
>> > >> > That is the lastest we have rafted-up. Our last latest was Nov 
>> 1st.
>> > >> > Was cool in the night but the sun was very warm right away in the
>> > >> > morning.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Hope y'all had as great a time as we did.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Anne
>> > >> >
>> > >> > __________________________________________________
>> > >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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