[Rhodes22-list] Battteries

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Sat Apr 14 16:52:37 EDT 2007


Wally,

You're just picking fights without reading.

Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts.  They are a different 
size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes.   Banding them 
together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.

Bill Effros



TN Rhodey wrote:
> Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe green fees 
> could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe the golf 
> course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra bucks 
> because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal post for 
> my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
>
>
>
>
>   
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
>>
>> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine 
>> Batteries".
>>
>> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts use their
>> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of blowing out
>> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
>>
>> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not worth the
>> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
>>
>> I read the same stuff you read.  It doesn't cost that much to test out
>> the theories, and I did so for years.  I have been swapping out
>> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the electrical
>> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with another.
>>
>> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
>> batteries that Stan originally installed.  They were better
>> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine, AGM, or
>> any other brand or type I tried.
>>
>> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
>>
>> 2 is complete redundancy.
>>
>> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety for 6
>> years at a time.  Cheap at the price.
>>
>> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power.  I burn less
>> than 10 gallons of gas a year.  My batteries stay on board, summer and
>> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
>>
>> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch.  If one starts to
>> fail, the other brings it back up.  A dead short on one will not short
>> out the other.  (yes, I tried)
>>
>> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense.  They don't
>> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
>>
>> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly.  The monstrously
>> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
>> "ordinary" batteries.
>>
>> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give them is
>> to take what Stan provides.  2 is more than you'll ever need.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>     
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery design 
>>>       
>> to
>>     
>>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost every 
>>>       
>> day.
>>     
>>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly recharged. 
>>>       
>> I am
>>     
>>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be run down 
>>>       
>> and
>>     
>>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point out they 
>>>       
>> are
>>     
>>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive batteries 
>>>       
>> and
>>     
>>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the same
>>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other types of 6
>>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There is a 
>>>       
>> reason.
>>     
>>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be able to 
>>>       
>> run
>>     
>>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make 12-volt 
>>>       
>> Golf
>>     
>>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be too big 
>>>       
>> and
>>     
>>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan Batteries 
>>>       
>> (6
>>     
>>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a bit
>>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not your 
>>>       
>> average
>>     
>>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by them.
>>>
>>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were cruising
>>> around the world I would have something different.
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
>>>>
>>>> Wally,
>>>>
>>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to sailboats 
>>>>         
>> either.
>>     
>>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and they 
>>>>         
>> are.
>>     
>>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s and avoid
>>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
>>>>
>>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use.  My boat has
>>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self sustaining with
>>>> solar and engine.  And I use just as much electricity as I want,
>>>> whenever I want.  It's a no-brainer.  As soon as you start really
>>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
>>>>
>>>> They run $300 each!  Got to have 4 of them to replace $100 worth of 12
>>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
>>>>
>>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
>>>>
>>>> bill effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries...   Cars have a
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> high
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery don't 
>>>>>           
>> apply.
>>     
>>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt batteries. The 
>>>>>           
>> big
>>     
>>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much better 
>>>>>           
>> when
>>     
>>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12 volts.
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> That is
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> why cruisers love them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stay away from this complexity.  It's simply not needed in our boats.
>>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats.  The golf cart batteries don't
>>>>>> fit anywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
>>>>>> start/generator.  If your battery runs out, you pull the starter 
>>>>>>             
>> cord,
>>     
>>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough electricity to
>>>>>> power your running lights.  That's all you need.  If it's daytime, 
>>>>>>             
>> you
>>     
>>>>>> don't need any power at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move.  Not so a
>>>>>> sailboat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series.  Why 
>>>>>>             
>> not?
>>     
>>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the stereo 
>>>>>>             
>> system.
>>     
>>>>>> I'm done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>> extensive
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations.  He seems to endorse
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.  
>>>>>>>               
>> Apparently
>>     
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine 
>>>>>>>               
>> batteries.
>>     
>>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes.  It is set up for and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>> had
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage.  Intending to buy deep cycle
>>>>>>>>> wet  cells,
>>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2 Group
>>>>>>>>> 27s.   Have solar
>>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter, pull  start
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>> outboard.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>>>>> Need
>>>>>>>>> advice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about batteries the
>>>>>>>> other day!  This article was written from an RV perspective, but 
>>>>>>>>                 
>> I'm
>>     
>>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar.  One very intriguing
>>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in series to
>>>>>>>> produce 12 volts.  Apparently golf cart batteries offer some of the
>>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See article at
>>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm   Scroll down to
>>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Lock
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
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