[Rhodes22-list] Visit to General Boats

[Geankoplis]

Hey Caesar,
		DC's remarks seem right on and well thought out.  I don't
know how I forgot to mention the mast hoist that is critical.  About the
compass, a good point if you don't plan to go to the Sound in the near
future, but when you do you'll need one even with a GPS.

Chris G

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of DCLewis1 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:59 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Visit to General Boats


Caesar,
 
Re your visit to Edenton in Dec:  It's likely going to be cold in  Edenton
in 
Dec, are you really up for sleeping in an unheated boat for a couple  of 
days?  Is your wife?  I think it can get down in the 30's at  night.  
 
To add to what Dave and Chris have already said about outfitting your boat.

With that budget and a trailer thrown in you may be pressed, so you might
want 
 to choose carefully.  My thoughts and experience follow:
 
- Captain seats are nice, we use them sometimes, not often.  They are  kind 
of a gee-whiz thing when company is aboard.  The capt seats required a  new 
stern pulpit, posts drilled, drains installed, etc; mods aren't  trivial.
You 
might find they are costly.  Finally, when you don't use  the capt seats
they 
take up considerable room in your V-berth.  You might  really like the capt 
seats, I'm ambivalent (not negative, ambivalent).  I  recommend you try them
out 
and then decide.
 
- Cushions: As we evolve with our boat, we commonly don't use the cockpit  
cushions unless company's aboard.  We started out using the cushions, but
we 
find they are just another thing that can slide around and they aren't a
heck  
of a lot more comfortable than the bare fiberglass benches.  Our boat works

fine without the cockpit cushions.  If you are going to go with the cockpit

filler bed, discussed below, you will need cockpit cushions in addition to
the  
filler bed cushions. If cost is an issue, you might just take whatever  
reasonable cockpit cushions Gen Boats has and upgrade to better cushions
later,  if 
you find you need them.
 
Cabin cushions are a different matter, I think you have to have them -  
although if you are getting a refurb check to be sure the cushions and
covers on  
the refurb won't suffice for your purposes.   You may not need new  cabin 
cushions.
 
- Bimini: We use our Bimini a lot.  We are using it more now than when  we 
first got our boat, and I think our use of it will only increase.  If  you
sail 
in the hot sun a lot you will likely want a Bimini, and Gen Boats can
provide 
it. 
 
- Re hatches.  We have one in the head and I think it's essential to  the
use 
of the head.  The head is really a very constrained space unless  you're a 
small person.  The hatch lets you stand to adjust your apparel, or
whatever.  
Also, that hatch allows ventilation in the cabin - which is  always useful.

Actually, we rarely open the hatch in the cabin, unless  someone is using
the 
head.  We haven't found ventilation in the cabin to be  an issue because we 
spend so little time in it.
 
Re the need or utility of 2 hatches in the cabin - I have no comment.   I 
think 1 in the head is a really good idea.
 
- Compass: We use an Iris 100 (or something like that) that we purchased  
after our boat was delivered, it's large enough and easily mounted.  It's
the 
kind of compass you can easily mount yourself.  If you go with a large  
bulkhead mounted compass you have to cut a hole in the bulkhead and that's
probably 
best left to General Boats.  Mounting a large bulkhead  compass means your 
options to change or adjust your compass mounting are  limited - a lot of 
fiberglass work to repair the large hole that was  cut  in the bulkhead, so
consider 
carefully what you want and where to place it if  you are going with a big 
bulkhead compass.
 
If you are sailing on a river or lake, you may find you really don't need a

compass - to start.  From my perspective, a compass is a steering aid used
to 
steer a course.  On a lake or river you might steer via landmarks  (unless 
there's fog, rain, or darkness).  To deal with the  darkness/fog/rain 
contingency you could carry a hand compass until your budget  got around to
equipping 
the boat with something more substantial.
 
Be aware there's a school of thought on the list that says get the biggest  
compass that will fit in the space available on your boat.  There's another

school of thought on the list that says that same space you tie up with a
large  
bulkhead compass is prime leaning-back cockpit space, so use a slightly 
smaller  compass mounted so that it doesn't interfere with that leaning-back
space. 
  You need to decide for yourself, but if you go the way we did, you can get

the  compass after you get your boat and install it yourself, thus saving
some 
 $.
 
- GPS: We have a handheld charting GPS and it works fine (it's a Lowrance,  
but I understand Garmin may be better).  We got it after we got the  boat.
Our 
first sailing was daysailing, in fact most of our sailing is  daysailing,
and 
if you are in an area you know you don't really need a GPS,  except that it 
can tell you your speed.   For us a GPS wasn't part of  the initial boat 
outfitting.
 
If you get a chart plotting GPS, I think you'll find you use it for  
navigating more than you use your compass.  The compass is a steering aid
that lets 
you hold a bearing.  If you're not on familiar water, a GPS tells  you what 
bearing to steer and how far away you are from your way point or
destination - 
and your speed.  If you get a hand held GPS, it's a purchase  you can delay.

If you want a GPS that's mounted on your boat,  then  Gen Boats with it's 
fabrication capabilities may be your choice.
 
- VHF/radio/antenna: If you are ever going to want a mast mounted VHF radio

antenna, it might be best to have Gen Boats install the antenna, radio, and

cabling.  This entails putting a connector through your cabin ceiling
(fiber 
glassing) and running a cable in the cabin and another cable down your
mast.  
I think Gen Boats can do it better than I could, you have to  evaluate your 
skill set in making a determination re letting Gen Boats do it, or  your
doing 
it.  
 
Our antenna/cabling is on the fritz after 1 year (it went on the fritz  
within less than a year) and I have found that a handheld VHF works just
fine.  
The handheld is handier, cheaper, and much easier to  maintain.  Actually, I

think our cell phones are more useful than the  marine VHF. On the
Chesapeake bay 
we are never more than a couple miles from  land and I have yet to have a 
cell phone coverage drop out - but it may  happen.  The advantage of a
marine VHF 
is that we can get weather  advisories, monitor the emergency channel, and
it'
s a backup to the cell phone;  a handheld suffices.
 
But, if you think you will ever want a mast mounted antenna, I recommend
you 
let Gen Boats put it in.  I'm sure there are range advantages to having  a 
mast mounted antenna and that may be useful when sailing Puget Sound.  I
think 
a hand held VHF will work great for rivers and lakes.
 
- Marine head: Again there are divided opinions on the list.  Some  people 
say go with a porta-potti, other's say go with a marine head.  If  you are
going 
to be sailing from a mooring, the marine head may be easier and  more 
convenient than hauling a porta-potti on and off the boat.  If you're
sailing from a 
slip or trailer, either might work. The porta-potti will avoid  one through 
hull connection and a seacock - both of which could become  maintenance
issues. 
 The marine head itself and associated plumbing needs  maintenance from time

to time, and sometimes replacement(expensive); I gather  porta-pottis need 
maintenance every time you use your boat - i.e. have to take  it off board
and 
empty it , but are probably cheaper and easier to maintain than  marine
heads. 
The marine head/holding tank will hold more "stuff" than a  porta-potti
will, 
that could be important if you envision long cruises with no  landings -
most 
people don't sail that way.  One possible drawback to a  marine head is that

you need access to pumpout facilities to make it work, if  you're trailer 
sailing from isolated ramps, or your back yard, you may come up  short
regarding 
pumpout facilities.  You need to think it through in terms  of your sailing 
profile.  Marine heads and porta-pottis both work, the  porta-potti might be

cheaper, but it may take up more room in the head and there  are all the
other 
advantages & disadvantages I've identified above.   Again, I've never owned
a 
porta potti. 
 
- Electric lift for your OB: With your budget you may not need it, it's a  
convenience.
 
- Tiller/OB linkage: If you are going to be motoring in constrained spaces  
(e.g. marina fairways), I recommend you go for it.  If you are not going to
be 
motoring in constrained spaces, you may not need the linkage.  The  linkage 
significantly  improves maneuverability, but it will constrain  your choice
of 
OB because you will have to be able to attach a linkage yoke to  any OB you 
purchase (note: the OB you will get from GenBoats will have that  yoke, the 
problem will be your next OB, that you may not get from  GenBoats).  
 
- Cockpit filler bunk: If you've got the budget, and you expect to be  
sleeping out on your boat, I'd say go for it.  But this is one of those
things you 
can add after you get your boat.  You might want to get your  boat, do some 
sailing, and then come back to Stan about the cockpit  filler.  It does let
you 
sleep under the stars, and it does give you a much  bigger bed with better 
ventilation.  However, it also takes up space, the  cushions are hard, and
it's a 
fair weather thing (unless you throw in Arts Boom  Room).  Actually, you 
could likely sleep on the cockpit benches, but the  cockpit filler bed gives
you a 
lot more room to spread out.  Or you can  sleep in the cabin or V-berth(I'm 
not sure anybody actually sleeps in their  V-berth, maybe their kids do) and

forget about sleeping under the stars  etc.  The cockpit filler bunk is one
of 
those options you can get later. 
 
- Anchors: You can get more anchors after you get your boat, I recommend
you 
focus on other issues with Gen Boats.  Our boat came with 1 Danforth  type 
anchor mounted on the bow pulpit and that was a good start. 
 
- Mast hoist assembly: If you're getting a trailer, I suspect that means
you 
intend to trailer, which means you will be setting up and striking your mast

from time to time.  If you believe the wisdom of this list, the mast hoist  
system is almost essential in that regards. Trailer=> mast hoist  system.
 
- Get the IMF.
 
- Consider new sails.  If new sails won't fit in your budget  initially, you

may want to get new sails soon after.
 
Re a trailer: Consider your sailing profile carefully.  If you are  going to

keep your boat at a slip
or mooring, you may not need a trailer  initially, or at all.  If you find 
you do need a trailer, you can get it  later and that will alleviate budget 
constraints in the interim.  Don't  forget, the decision to get a trailer
requires 
decisions regarding a vehicle  that can tow that loaded trailer.  Trailer
and 
vehicle maintenance, tags,  taxes, storage, etc will be a continuing
headache 
for you in terms of your free  time and $.  Do you really need them 
initially?  Maybe you do.
 
I suspect Stan will suggest you focus on the boat as opposed to a trailer  
and a lot of options.  He did with us.  We came back wanting a lot of
options, 
although we did skip the trailer.  In retrospect, I think Stan got  it right
- 
we probably have more options than we need.  Trust Stan, he'll  steer you 
straight.
 
Finally, in your post you said you were going to be sailing on lakes and  
rivers and Puget Sound.  I suspect that most of us start with grander
sailing 
plans than we actually realize in our first few seasons.  I suspect  most of
us 
have local sailing haunts that we frequent often - particularly while  we
are 
getting to know the boat and improving our sailing skills.  You  might 
consider initially getting the boat appropriate for your local sailing
haunts and 
then adding capability over time as your sailing profile increases -  this 
addresses any budgetary constraints.  For example, you might not be
trailering to 
Puget Sound the first year or 2, so you can up-grade over time to  deal with

sailing on the Sound and just concentrate initially on sailing on your
local 
lake/river.  Or I could be wrong and you really might have concrete  plans
to 
trailer to the Sound, in which case you may need a trailer, the mast
mounted 
antenna, etc .  You know your needs.
 
I apologize for the length of this post, but I hope this helps.
 
Dave
 
 



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