[Rhodes22-list] Rummy, was Retracting IMF
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Wed Feb 21 10:38:41 EST 2007
Mary Lou,
Mine is like yours, not like Rummy's. Can you describe with words how
yours is rigged? When I went to rig mine I suddenly realized there were
many possible ways to make the system work, and it seemed to me that
different people's boats were rigged differently, even though we all
speak as though we have all rigged the sliding car the same way.
Specifically, my new sliding car has a loop on what I imagine is
supposed to be the forward part (although the car can be placed into the
boom in the other direction.) My old car had no loop. As I remember
Rummy's set up, (I have not gone back to look) he has a line attached to
that forward loop.
It is possible to have a line on the loop that does not go through the
block, and another that goes around the block and down through the hole
on the boom...when you start to play with it, you can see many different
ways to rig the boom, and although most are completely impractical,
there is more than one way that could work.
GB being GB, it's not a sure thing that they all come out of the factory
rigged the same way, even if they all have the same parts.
Rummy,
Thanks for sending your pic.s. Sorry I did not respond sooner.
Sometimes they make me work.
Slim,
I have pictures of Bruce's rigging (down through the boom) on another
computer, and will send them along if someone else doesn't post this
set-up first.
Bill Effros
Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> Slim,
> I took a look at the pictures Rummy posted and ours is completely
> different. On ours the cleat is at the aft end of the boom. The
> outhaul comes down through the boom so it is a simple run (down
> through the boom) to the vertical camcleat on the underside of the aft
> end of the boom. It makes for easy adjustment for the helmsperson and
> it's easy for crew as well. I believe this is how the new boats are
> set up. Sorry I don't have another picture. The mast and boom are
> under wraps so it will be a while.
>
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22 Fretless
> Rock Hall, MD
>
> At 01:45 AM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
>> Mary Lou,
>>
>> Now I'm completely confused. I don't understand why the outhaul
>> would need
>> to go through the boom.
>>
>> Rummy, can you post a picture of yours? IIRC you have cam cleats on
>> both
>> outhaul and reefing lines.
>>
>> Slim
>>
>> On 2/20/07 5:13 PM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Slim.
>> > Nope I meant the outhaul. Our reefing line is still on a horn cleat
>> > and frankly we don't have much trouble with that - perhaps because we
>> > are always double-handed. The out haul was more of a problem for us.
>> > The kit Stan sells includes the piece of UMPWUMP (I like that) for
>> > mounting the cleat. IIRC the kit include the cam cleat, the piece cut
>> > to fit the boom & the through boom fitting. We had to cut the hole in
>> > the boom and attach the UMPWUMP fitting with self tapping screws (I
>> > think Stan provided those too.)
>> >
>> > Hope this helps.
>> >
>> > Mary Lou
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 04:41 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>> >> Mary Lou,
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, but don't you mean the reefing line? The outhaul (blue
>> line) looks
>> >> to be on top of your boom--same as mine. Not that the outhaul
>> couldn't have
>> >> a cam cleat too. IIRC Rummy has both.
>> >>
>> >> I didn't know Stan had a retrofit kit. Rummy had to specially cut
>> a piece
>> >> of UMPWUMP (whatever it is) to accommodate the curve of the boom
>> to the
>> >> flat seat of the cleat. What exactly did Stan send you? Do you
>> have any
>> >> more pictures?
>> >>
>> >> Slim
>> >>
>> >> On 2/20/07 7:15 AM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Slim,
>> >>> A couple of years ago we bought Stan's retrofit kit for the through
>> >>> the boom/camcleat fittings for the outhaul. We like it a lot even
>> >>> though we still don't know if we installed it backwards. Plusses &
>> >>> minuses either way I think. In any event it makes adjusting the
>> >>> outhaul much quicker. You can just barely see it in this pic - you
>> >>> might need to squint. The outhaul goes through the boom (plastic
>> >>> fitting to protect the line) and cleats under the boom.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mary Lou
>> >>>
>> >>> At 01:50 AM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>> >>>> Thanks, Bill, I'll put all this into practice and try to improve my
>> >>>> technique. Also, I'd like to modify my boom and install cam
>> >> cleats instead
>> >>>> of horn cleats (like Rummy has) which makes everything faster.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Slim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 2/19/07 5:39 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Slim,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> OK, now we're on the same page.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Like you, the only time it's harder than easy for me is when
>> the wind
>> >>>>> has picked up relative to the amount of main sail I have out,
>> forcing me
>> >>>>> to let out the main to a point where the aft boom cleat can't
>> be reached
>> >>>>> while standing on floor of the cockpit.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Part of your solution has been to cleat the lines on the mid
>> boom cleat,
>> >>>>> however that forces you to leave the tiller. I tried that
>> approach, but
>> >>>>> have subsequently moved the lines back to the aft boom cleat.
>> I found
>> >>>>> it was dangerous to wrestle with the boom when it had too much
>> sail on
>> >>>>> it, I wasn't holding onto the tiller, and I was leaning toward the
>> >>>>> leeward side of the boat.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If the lines are cleated aft, you are forced to bring the sail
>> in over
>> >>>>> the cockpit (which, just incidentally, makes the sail furl on
>> the tube
>> >>>>> more easily and more cleanly.) The only ways you can bring the
>> sail
>> >>>>> over the cockpit, if it is not already there, is by sailing
>> higher into
>> >>>>> the wind, while coming about, or in a hove-to situation. In
>> that order.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If the boom is over the water and you want to reduce the main
>> sail,
>> >>>>> first retract the genny so that it is around 100%. No problem
>> >>>>> there--I'm sure you know how to do that without snarling the
>> >>>>> furler--(hint to newbies--keep tension on both lines.) The
>> main sail is
>> >>>>> 1/2 the size of the 175 genny, so this will significantly
>> depower the
>> >>>>> boat, and may allow you to bring in the main over the cockpit
>> depending
>> >>>>> on how far your mainsail must be adjusted. If so, release the
>> lines
>> >>>>> from the aft cleat and adjust at reduced speed on the same course.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If you still can't pull in your main, steer higher into the
>> wind until
>> >>>>> you can, and then fall off again after making the adjustment in
>> >>>>> relatively calm air. If you steer too high, and wish to come
>> about, you
>> >>>>> can catch the boom and make your adjustment while the boom
>> remains on
>> >>>>> the favored side, usually Starboard, before releasing the genny
>> sheet
>> >>>>> and completing the tack. If you can't do this fast enough, or
>> don't
>> >>>>> want to come about, don't release the genny sheet, which will
>> >>>>> automatically leave you hove-to. Using the tiller you can get
>> the boom
>> >>>>> anywhere you want it in calm air over the cockpit. You will
>> have as
>> >>>>> much time as you need to adjust the sail, tiller between legs,
>> standing
>> >>>>> in the center of the cockpit, aft, approximately over the table
>> socket.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You can sail out of being hove-to on either a port or starboard
>> tack.
>> >>>>> Steer in the direction you wish to go. Then release the genny,
>> or not,
>> >>>>> depending on which tack you want to be on.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Bill Effros
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Slim wrote:
>> >>>>>> Just Plain Bill, et al,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Right--lengthening the sail is never a problem and I, too try to
>> >>>> put up less
>> >>>>>> sail than I need at first and add more later if I want. But
>> sometimes I
>> >>>>>> over estimate how much to use and other times the wind picks
>> >> up after I'm
>> >>>>>> out there, so shortening the main in the heat of battle is
>> >>>> something I want
>> >>>>>> to get better at. It's especially tricky if I'm
>> >>>> single-handing. And, like
>> >>>>>> you have said, even with others onboard I'm still
>> >> single-handing, although
>> >>>>>> someone to take the helm and hold our course is a big help and
>> >>>> not too hard
>> >>>>>> even for a novice. I can always heave to in order to do
>> >> anything but I'd
>> >>>>>> like to get better at reefing quickly while still under
>> >>>> way. Thanks for the
>> >>>>>> tip on moving the boom car before I haul in the reefing line.
>> I think
>> >>>>>> that'll help.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Slim
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 2/18/07 10:46 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Slim,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I've read some of the replies.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> First, let's note you are only speaking of shortening the
>> sail. There
>> >>>>>>> is no problem lengthening it. Just prior to tacking, you
>> >> simply release
>> >>>>>>> the line that prevents more sail from going out, to add the
>> amount of
>> >>>>>>> sail you wish to add. This will cause a huge belly in the
>> sail. Using
>> >>>>>>> the main sheet, cleat the sail so that it is above the
>> cockpit on the
>> >>>>>>> starboard side of the boat (on most boats depending on the
>> rotation of
>> >>>>>>> the IMF inside the mast). Pause in your tack long enough to
>> secure the
>> >>>>>>> longer sail in it's new position on the boom, adjusting for
>> >> the level of
>> >>>>>>> sail tightness. Finish your tack, or not, depending on where
>> you want
>> >>>>>>> to go.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> When shortening the sail you must release the line that holds
>> the sail
>> >>>>>>> out, first. Move the car on the boom to where you want the
>> sail to be
>> >>>>>>> attached to the boom. Again, this will cause the sail to
>> belly out.
>> >>>>>>> Then pull the sail retrieval line to get the proper sail shape.
>> >>>>>>> Continue the tack, or not.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If it's really blowing you may have to heave to in order to
>> keep the
>> >>>>>>> sail under control.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I always start with less sail than I think I will need and
>> >> then lengthen
>> >>>>>>> it. I always heave to when retracting sail fully at the end
>> of the day
>> >>>>>>> because if you learn to heave to, well, you can make the boat
>> >> point into
>> >>>>>>> the wind at any direction that makes retracting the sail work
>> best on
>> >>>>>>> your boat with your sails. Experience.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Bill Effros
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Slim wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> My, my, my... Aren't we a chatty bunch today? Ninety-some
>> emails!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Art brought up an important point about operating the IMF on a
>> >>>> port tack.
>> >>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>> do this too but only slightly off the wind for best
>> >> results. I let the
>> >>>>>>>> main
>> >>>>>>>> sheet go so the sail is luffing and then it's a cinch to
>> roll it up.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Here's where I could use some help: If the wind picks up and
>> >>>> I decide to
>> >>>>>>>> shorten sail, I usually discover that I'm overpowered when
>> on a close
>> >>>>>>>> reach.
>> >>>>>>>> That's when you get heeled over too much. That's when the
>> >>>> wind has picked
>> >>>>>>>> up and there's a lot of force on the sail. I've found it to
>> be quite
>> >>>>>>>> difficult to reef in the mail on this point of sail even if
>> >> it is a port
>> >>>>>>>> tack and absolutely impossible on a starboard tack.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> So what maneuvers or what point of sail would be best to make
>> >>>> this easier?
>> >>>>>>>> Must I luff up? I don't like doing that because it's so
>> chaotic and
>> >>>>>>>> sometimes I get blown over to the other tack anyway and the
>> >> problem gets
>> >>>>>>>> worse. But if there's any wind in the sail at all then it's
>> >>>> much harder to
>> >>>>>>>> flatten out the sail because the lines are so stressed. At
>> least I've
>> >>>>>>>> finally learned to cleat off my control lines on the cleats
>> >>>> nearer the mast
>> >>>>>>>> and not the ones at the end of the boom where I can't always
>> >>>> reach them. I
>> >>>>>>>> think I've answered my own question. You gotta luff
>> >> up. But has anyone
>> >>>>>>>> discovered a better procedure?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Reefing in the jib under these conditions is easier. I
>> >>>> usually wait until
>> >>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>> tack and then keep the jib sheet on the now-windward side
>> >> sort of like a
>> >>>>>>>> heave to, backwinding the main. Then I can ease the sheet out
>> >>>> and take the
>> >>>>>>>> reefing line while the jib is still full of air.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >>>>
>> >>>> __________________________________________________
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>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
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>> >>>> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date:
>> >>>> 2/14/2007 4:17 PM
>> >>>
>> >>> Name: fender.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 113895 bytes Desc: not
>> available
>> >>> Url:
>> >>>
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200702/20/fender.jpg
>>
>> >>>
>> >>> __________________________________________________
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>> >>
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>> >
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>
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