[Rhodes22-list] Rummy, was Retracting IMF

[Mary Lou Troy]

Bill,
I may not be able to describe it accurately without looking at it but 
I'll give it a try when we get back to Maryland next week. Remind me 
if I forget.

Mary Lou


At 10:38 AM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
>Mary Lou,
>
>Mine is like yours, not like Rummy's.  Can you describe with words 
>how yours is rigged?  When I went to rig mine I suddenly realized 
>there were many possible ways to make the system work, and it seemed 
>to me that different people's boats were rigged differently, even 
>though we all speak as though we have all rigged the sliding car the same way.
>
>Specifically, my new sliding car has a loop on what I imagine is 
>supposed to be the forward part (although the car can be placed into 
>the boom in the other direction.)  My old car had no loop.  As I 
>remember Rummy's set up, (I have not gone back to look) he has a 
>line attached to that forward loop.
>It is possible to have a line on the loop that does not go through 
>the block, and another that goes around the block and down through 
>the hole on the boom...when you start to play with it, you can see 
>many different ways to rig the boom, and although most are 
>completely impractical, there is more than one way that could work.
>
>GB being GB, it's not a sure thing that they all come out of the 
>factory rigged the same way, even if they all have the same parts.
>
>Rummy,
>
>Thanks for sending your pic.s.  Sorry I did not respond sooner.
>Sometimes they make me work.
>
>Slim,
>
>I have pictures of Bruce's rigging (down through the boom) on 
>another computer, and will send them along if someone else doesn't 
>post this set-up first.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>Mary Lou Troy wrote:
>>Slim,
>>I took a look at the pictures Rummy posted and ours is completely 
>>different. On ours the cleat is at the aft end of the boom. The 
>>outhaul comes down through the boom so it is a simple run (down 
>>through the boom) to the vertical camcleat on the underside of the 
>>aft end of the boom. It makes for easy adjustment for the 
>>helmsperson and it's easy for crew as well. I believe this is how 
>>the new boats are set up. Sorry I don't have another picture. The 
>>mast and boom are under wraps so it will be a while.
>>
>>Mary Lou
>>1991 R22 Fretless
>>Rock Hall, MD
>>
>>At 01:45 AM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
>>>Mary Lou,
>>>
>>>Now I'm completely confused.  I don't understand why the outhaul would need
>>>to go through the boom.
>>>
>>>Rummy, can you post a picture of yours?  IIRC you have cam cleats on both
>>>outhaul and reefing lines.
>>>
>>>Slim
>>>
>>>On 2/20/07 5:13 PM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Slim.
>>> > Nope I meant the outhaul. Our reefing line is still on a horn cleat
>>> > and frankly we don't have much trouble with that - perhaps because we
>>> > are always double-handed. The out haul was more of a problem for us.
>>> > The kit Stan sells includes the piece of UMPWUMP (I like that) for
>>> > mounting the cleat. IIRC the kit include the cam cleat, the piece cut
>>> > to fit the boom & the through boom fitting. We had to cut the hole in
>>> > the boom and attach the UMPWUMP fitting with self tapping screws (I
>>> > think Stan provided those too.)
>>> >
>>> > Hope this helps.
>>> >
>>> > Mary Lou
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > At 04:41 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>> >> Mary Lou,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks, but don't you mean the reefing line?  The outhaul 
>>> (blue line) looks
>>> >> to be on top of your boom--same as mine.  Not that the outhaul 
>>> couldn't have
>>> >> a cam cleat too.  IIRC Rummy has both.
>>> >>
>>> >> I didn't know Stan had a retrofit kit.  Rummy had to specially 
>>> cut a piece
>>> >> of  UMPWUMP (whatever it is)  to accommodate the curve of the 
>>> boom to the
>>> >> flat seat of the cleat.  What exactly did Stan send you?  Do 
>>> you have any
>>> >> more pictures?
>>> >>
>>> >> Slim
>>> >>
>>> >> On 2/20/07 7:15 AM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Slim,
>>> >>> A couple of years ago we bought Stan's retrofit kit for the through
>>> >>> the boom/camcleat fittings for the outhaul. We like it a lot even
>>> >>> though we still don't know if we installed it backwards. Plusses &
>>> >>> minuses either way I think. In any event it makes adjusting the
>>> >>> outhaul much quicker. You can just barely see it in this pic - you
>>> >>> might need to squint. The outhaul goes through the boom (plastic
>>> >>> fitting to protect the line) and cleats under the boom.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Mary Lou
>>> >>>
>>> >>> At 01:50 AM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>> >>>> Thanks, Bill, I'll put all this into practice and try to improve my
>>> >>>> technique.  Also, I'd like to modify my boom and install cam
>>> >> cleats instead
>>> >>>> of horn cleats (like Rummy has) which makes everything faster.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Slim
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 2/19/07 5:39 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Slim,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> OK, now we're on the same page.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Like you, the only time it's harder than easy for me is when the wind
>>> >>>>> has picked up relative to the amount of main sail I have 
>>> out, forcing me
>>> >>>>> to let out the main to a point where the aft boom cleat 
>>> can't be reached
>>> >>>>> while standing on floor of the cockpit.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Part of your solution has been to cleat the lines on the 
>>> mid boom cleat,
>>> >>>>> however that forces you to leave the tiller.  I tried that 
>>> approach, but
>>> >>>>> have subsequently moved the lines back to the aft boom cleat.
>>>I found
>>> >>>>> it was dangerous to wrestle with the boom when it had too 
>>> much sail on
>>> >>>>> it, I wasn't holding onto the tiller, and I was leaning toward the
>>> >>>>> leeward side of the boat.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> If the lines are cleated aft, you are forced to bring the 
>>> sail in over
>>> >>>>> the cockpit (which, just incidentally, makes the sail furl 
>>> on the tube
>>> >>>>> more easily and more cleanly.)  The only ways you can bring the sail
>>> >>>>> over the cockpit, if it is not already there, is by sailing 
>>> higher into
>>> >>>>> the wind, while coming about, or in a hove-to 
>>> situation.  In that order.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> If the boom is over the water and you want to reduce the main sail,
>>> >>>>> first retract the genny so that it is around 100%.  No problem
>>> >>>>> there--I'm sure you know how to do that without snarling the
>>> >>>>> furler--(hint to newbies--keep tension on both lines.)  The 
>>> main sail is
>>> >>>>> 1/2 the size of the 175 genny, so this will significantly depower the
>>> >>>>> boat, and may allow you to bring in the main over the 
>>> cockpit depending
>>> >>>>> on how far your mainsail must be adjusted.  If so, release the lines
>>> >>>>> from the aft cleat and adjust at reduced speed on the same course.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> If you still can't pull in your main, steer higher into the 
>>> wind until
>>> >>>>> you can, and then fall off again after making the adjustment in
>>> >>>>> relatively calm air.  If you steer too high, and wish to 
>>> come about, you
>>> >>>>> can catch the boom and make your adjustment while the boom remains on
>>> >>>>> the favored side, usually Starboard, before releasing the genny sheet
>>> >>>>> and completing the tack.   If you can't do this fast enough, or don't
>>> >>>>> want to come about, don't release the genny sheet, which will
>>> >>>>> automatically leave you hove-to.  Using the tiller you can 
>>> get the boom
>>> >>>>> anywhere you want it in calm air over the cockpit.  You will have as
>>> >>>>> much time as you need to adjust the sail, tiller between 
>>> legs, standing
>>> >>>>> in the center of the cockpit, aft, approximately over the 
>>> table socket.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> You can sail out of being hove-to on either a port or starboard tack.
>>> >>>>> Steer in the direction you wish to go.  Then release the 
>>> genny, or not,
>>> >>>>> depending on which tack you want to be on.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Bill Effros
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Slim wrote:
>>> >>>>>> Just Plain Bill, et al,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Right--lengthening the sail is never a problem and I, too try to
>>> >>>> put up less
>>> >>>>>> sail than I need at first and add more later if I 
>>> want.  But sometimes I
>>> >>>>>> over estimate how much to use and other times the wind picks
>>> >> up after I'm
>>> >>>>>> out there, so shortening the main in the heat of battle is
>>> >>>> something I want
>>> >>>>>> to get better at.  It's especially tricky if I'm
>>> >>>> single-handing.  And, like
>>> >>>>>> you have said, even with others onboard I'm still
>>> >> single-handing, although
>>> >>>>>> someone to take the helm and hold our course is a big help and
>>> >>>> not too hard
>>> >>>>>> even for a novice.  I can always heave to in order to do
>>> >> anything but I'd
>>> >>>>>> like to get better at reefing quickly while still under
>>> >>>> way.  Thanks for the
>>> >>>>>> tip on moving the boom car before I haul in the reefing line.
>>>I think
>>> >>>>>> that'll help.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Slim
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/07 10:46 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Slim,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I've read some of the replies.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> First, let's note you are only speaking of shortening the 
>>> sail.  There
>>> >>>>>>> is no problem lengthening it.  Just prior to tacking, you
>>> >> simply release
>>> >>>>>>> the line that prevents more sail from going out, to add 
>>> the amount of
>>> >>>>>>> sail you wish to add.  This will cause a huge belly in 
>>> the sail.  Using
>>> >>>>>>> the main sheet, cleat the sail so that it is above the 
>>> cockpit on the
>>> >>>>>>> starboard side of the boat (on most boats depending on 
>>> the rotation of
>>> >>>>>>> the IMF inside the mast).  Pause in your tack long enough 
>>> to secure the
>>> >>>>>>> longer sail in it's new position on the boom, adjusting for
>>> >> the level of
>>> >>>>>>> sail tightness.  Finish your tack, or not, depending on 
>>> where you want
>>> >>>>>>> to go.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> When shortening the sail you must release the line that 
>>> holds the sail
>>> >>>>>>> out, first.  Move the car on the boom to where you want 
>>> the sail to be
>>> >>>>>>> attached to the boom.  Again, this will cause the sail to 
>>> belly out.
>>> >>>>>>> Then pull the sail retrieval line to get the proper sail shape.
>>> >>>>>>> Continue the tack, or not.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> If it's really blowing you may have to heave to in order 
>>> to keep the
>>> >>>>>>> sail under control.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I always start with less sail than I think I will need and
>>> >> then lengthen
>>> >>>>>>> it.  I always heave to when retracting sail fully at the 
>>> end of the day
>>> >>>>>>> because if you learn to heave to, well, you can make the boat
>>> >> point into
>>> >>>>>>> the wind at any direction that makes retracting the sail 
>>> work best on
>>> >>>>>>> your boat with your sails.  Experience.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Slim wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> My, my, my... Aren't we a chatty bunch today?  Ninety-some emails!
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Art brought up an important point about operating the IMF on a
>>> >>>> port tack.
>>> >>>>>>>> I
>>> >>>>>>>> do this too but only slightly off the wind for best
>>> >> results.  I let the
>>> >>>>>>>> main
>>> >>>>>>>> sheet go so the sail is luffing and then it's a cinch to 
>>> roll it up.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Here's where I could use some help:  If the wind picks up and
>>> >>>> I decide to
>>> >>>>>>>> shorten sail, I usually discover that I'm overpowered 
>>> when on a close
>>> >>>>>>>> reach.
>>> >>>>>>>> That's when you get heeled over too much.  That's when the
>>> >>>> wind has picked
>>> >>>>>>>> up and there's a lot of force on the sail.  I've found 
>>> it to be quite
>>> >>>>>>>> difficult to reef in the mail on this point of sail even if
>>> >> it is a port
>>> >>>>>>>> tack and absolutely impossible on a starboard tack.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> So what maneuvers or what point of sail would be best to make
>>> >>>> this easier?
>>> >>>>>>>> Must I luff up?  I don't like doing that because it's so 
>>> chaotic and
>>> >>>>>>>> sometimes I get blown over to the other tack anyway and the
>>> >> problem gets
>>> >>>>>>>> worse.  But if there's any wind in the sail at all then it's
>>> >>>> much harder to
>>> >>>>>>>> flatten out the sail because the lines are so 
>>> stressed.  At least I've
>>> >>>>>>>> finally learned to cleat off my control lines on the cleats
>>> >>>> nearer the mast
>>> >>>>>>>> and not the ones at the end of the boom where I can't always
>>> >>>> reach them.  I
>>> >>>>>>>> think I've answered my own question.  You gotta luff
>>> >> up.  But has anyone
>>> >>>>>>>> discovered a better procedure?
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Reefing in the jib under these conditions is easier.  I
>>> >>>> usually wait until
>>> >>>>>>>> I
>>> >>>>>>>> tack and then keep the jib sheet on the now-windward side
>>> >> sort of like a
>>> >>>>>>>> heave to, backwinding the main.  Then I can ease the sheet out
>>> >>>> and take the
>>> >>>>>>>> reefing line while the jib is still full of air.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> >>>>
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>>> >>>> 2/14/2007 4:17 PM
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>>> >>> 
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
>>> >>
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>>
>>
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