[Rhodes22-list] Rummy, was Retracting IMF
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Wed Feb 21 19:53:24 EST 2007
Thank, Mary Lou,
I've rigged and tried it 5 different ways. If you don't get back to me,
I'll get back to you.
Bill Effros
Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> Bill,
> I may not be able to describe it accurately without looking at it but
> I'll give it a try when we get back to Maryland next week. Remind me
> if I forget.
>
> Mary Lou
>
>
> At 10:38 AM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
>> Mary Lou,
>>
>> Mine is like yours, not like Rummy's. Can you describe with words
>> how yours is rigged? When I went to rig mine I suddenly realized
>> there were many possible ways to make the system work, and it seemed
>> to me that different people's boats were rigged differently, even
>> though we all speak as though we have all rigged the sliding car the
>> same way.
>>
>> Specifically, my new sliding car has a loop on what I imagine is
>> supposed to be the forward part (although the car can be placed into
>> the boom in the other direction.) My old car had no loop. As I
>> remember Rummy's set up, (I have not gone back to look) he has a line
>> attached to that forward loop.
>> It is possible to have a line on the loop that does not go through
>> the block, and another that goes around the block and down through
>> the hole on the boom...when you start to play with it, you can see
>> many different ways to rig the boom, and although most are completely
>> impractical, there is more than one way that could work.
>>
>> GB being GB, it's not a sure thing that they all come out of the
>> factory rigged the same way, even if they all have the same parts.
>>
>> Rummy,
>>
>> Thanks for sending your pic.s. Sorry I did not respond sooner.
>> Sometimes they make me work.
>>
>> Slim,
>>
>> I have pictures of Bruce's rigging (down through the boom) on another
>> computer, and will send them along if someone else doesn't post this
>> set-up first.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
>>> Slim,
>>> I took a look at the pictures Rummy posted and ours is completely
>>> different. On ours the cleat is at the aft end of the boom. The
>>> outhaul comes down through the boom so it is a simple run (down
>>> through the boom) to the vertical camcleat on the underside of the
>>> aft end of the boom. It makes for easy adjustment for the
>>> helmsperson and it's easy for crew as well. I believe this is how
>>> the new boats are set up. Sorry I don't have another picture. The
>>> mast and boom are under wraps so it will be a while.
>>>
>>> Mary Lou
>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
>>> Rock Hall, MD
>>>
>>> At 01:45 AM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
>>>> Mary Lou,
>>>>
>>>> Now I'm completely confused. I don't understand why the outhaul
>>>> would need
>>>> to go through the boom.
>>>>
>>>> Rummy, can you post a picture of yours? IIRC you have cam cleats
>>>> on both
>>>> outhaul and reefing lines.
>>>>
>>>> Slim
>>>>
>>>> On 2/20/07 5:13 PM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Slim.
>>>> > Nope I meant the outhaul. Our reefing line is still on a horn cleat
>>>> > and frankly we don't have much trouble with that - perhaps
>>>> because we
>>>> > are always double-handed. The out haul was more of a problem for us.
>>>> > The kit Stan sells includes the piece of UMPWUMP (I like that) for
>>>> > mounting the cleat. IIRC the kit include the cam cleat, the piece
>>>> cut
>>>> > to fit the boom & the through boom fitting. We had to cut the
>>>> hole in
>>>> > the boom and attach the UMPWUMP fitting with self tapping screws (I
>>>> > think Stan provided those too.)
>>>> >
>>>> > Hope this helps.
>>>> >
>>>> > Mary Lou
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > At 04:41 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>>> >> Mary Lou,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks, but don't you mean the reefing line? The outhaul (blue
>>>> line) looks
>>>> >> to be on top of your boom--same as mine. Not that the outhaul
>>>> couldn't have
>>>> >> a cam cleat too. IIRC Rummy has both.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I didn't know Stan had a retrofit kit. Rummy had to specially
>>>> cut a piece
>>>> >> of UMPWUMP (whatever it is) to accommodate the curve of the
>>>> boom to the
>>>> >> flat seat of the cleat. What exactly did Stan send you? Do you
>>>> have any
>>>> >> more pictures?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Slim
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2/20/07 7:15 AM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Slim,
>>>> >>> A couple of years ago we bought Stan's retrofit kit for the
>>>> through
>>>> >>> the boom/camcleat fittings for the outhaul. We like it a lot even
>>>> >>> though we still don't know if we installed it backwards. Plusses &
>>>> >>> minuses either way I think. In any event it makes adjusting the
>>>> >>> outhaul much quicker. You can just barely see it in this pic - you
>>>> >>> might need to squint. The outhaul goes through the boom (plastic
>>>> >>> fitting to protect the line) and cleats under the boom.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Mary Lou
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> At 01:50 AM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>>> >>>> Thanks, Bill, I'll put all this into practice and try to
>>>> improve my
>>>> >>>> technique. Also, I'd like to modify my boom and install cam
>>>> >> cleats instead
>>>> >>>> of horn cleats (like Rummy has) which makes everything faster.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Slim
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On 2/19/07 5:39 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Slim,
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> OK, now we're on the same page.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Like you, the only time it's harder than easy for me is when
>>>> the wind
>>>> >>>>> has picked up relative to the amount of main sail I have out,
>>>> forcing me
>>>> >>>>> to let out the main to a point where the aft boom cleat can't
>>>> be reached
>>>> >>>>> while standing on floor of the cockpit.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Part of your solution has been to cleat the lines on the mid
>>>> boom cleat,
>>>> >>>>> however that forces you to leave the tiller. I tried that
>>>> approach, but
>>>> >>>>> have subsequently moved the lines back to the aft boom cleat.
>>>> I found
>>>> >>>>> it was dangerous to wrestle with the boom when it had too
>>>> much sail on
>>>> >>>>> it, I wasn't holding onto the tiller, and I was leaning
>>>> toward the
>>>> >>>>> leeward side of the boat.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> If the lines are cleated aft, you are forced to bring the
>>>> sail in over
>>>> >>>>> the cockpit (which, just incidentally, makes the sail furl on
>>>> the tube
>>>> >>>>> more easily and more cleanly.) The only ways you can bring
>>>> the sail
>>>> >>>>> over the cockpit, if it is not already there, is by sailing
>>>> higher into
>>>> >>>>> the wind, while coming about, or in a hove-to situation. In
>>>> that order.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> If the boom is over the water and you want to reduce the main
>>>> sail,
>>>> >>>>> first retract the genny so that it is around 100%. No problem
>>>> >>>>> there--I'm sure you know how to do that without snarling the
>>>> >>>>> furler--(hint to newbies--keep tension on both lines.) The
>>>> main sail is
>>>> >>>>> 1/2 the size of the 175 genny, so this will significantly
>>>> depower the
>>>> >>>>> boat, and may allow you to bring in the main over the cockpit
>>>> depending
>>>> >>>>> on how far your mainsail must be adjusted. If so, release
>>>> the lines
>>>> >>>>> from the aft cleat and adjust at reduced speed on the same
>>>> course.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> If you still can't pull in your main, steer higher into the
>>>> wind until
>>>> >>>>> you can, and then fall off again after making the adjustment in
>>>> >>>>> relatively calm air. If you steer too high, and wish to come
>>>> about, you
>>>> >>>>> can catch the boom and make your adjustment while the boom
>>>> remains on
>>>> >>>>> the favored side, usually Starboard, before releasing the
>>>> genny sheet
>>>> >>>>> and completing the tack. If you can't do this fast enough,
>>>> or don't
>>>> >>>>> want to come about, don't release the genny sheet, which will
>>>> >>>>> automatically leave you hove-to. Using the tiller you can
>>>> get the boom
>>>> >>>>> anywhere you want it in calm air over the cockpit. You will
>>>> have as
>>>> >>>>> much time as you need to adjust the sail, tiller between
>>>> legs, standing
>>>> >>>>> in the center of the cockpit, aft, approximately over the
>>>> table socket.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> You can sail out of being hove-to on either a port or
>>>> starboard tack.
>>>> >>>>> Steer in the direction you wish to go. Then release the
>>>> genny, or not,
>>>> >>>>> depending on which tack you want to be on.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Bill Effros
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> Just Plain Bill, et al,
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Right--lengthening the sail is never a problem and I, too
>>>> try to
>>>> >>>> put up less
>>>> >>>>>> sail than I need at first and add more later if I want. But
>>>> sometimes I
>>>> >>>>>> over estimate how much to use and other times the wind picks
>>>> >> up after I'm
>>>> >>>>>> out there, so shortening the main in the heat of battle is
>>>> >>>> something I want
>>>> >>>>>> to get better at. It's especially tricky if I'm
>>>> >>>> single-handing. And, like
>>>> >>>>>> you have said, even with others onboard I'm still
>>>> >> single-handing, although
>>>> >>>>>> someone to take the helm and hold our course is a big help and
>>>> >>>> not too hard
>>>> >>>>>> even for a novice. I can always heave to in order to do
>>>> >> anything but I'd
>>>> >>>>>> like to get better at reefing quickly while still under
>>>> >>>> way. Thanks for the
>>>> >>>>>> tip on moving the boom car before I haul in the reefing line.
>>>> I think
>>>> >>>>>> that'll help.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Slim
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/07 10:46 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Slim,
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> I've read some of the replies.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> First, let's note you are only speaking of shortening the
>>>> sail. There
>>>> >>>>>>> is no problem lengthening it. Just prior to tacking, you
>>>> >> simply release
>>>> >>>>>>> the line that prevents more sail from going out, to add the
>>>> amount of
>>>> >>>>>>> sail you wish to add. This will cause a huge belly in the
>>>> sail. Using
>>>> >>>>>>> the main sheet, cleat the sail so that it is above the
>>>> cockpit on the
>>>> >>>>>>> starboard side of the boat (on most boats depending on the
>>>> rotation of
>>>> >>>>>>> the IMF inside the mast). Pause in your tack long enough
>>>> to secure the
>>>> >>>>>>> longer sail in it's new position on the boom, adjusting for
>>>> >> the level of
>>>> >>>>>>> sail tightness. Finish your tack, or not, depending on
>>>> where you want
>>>> >>>>>>> to go.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> When shortening the sail you must release the line that
>>>> holds the sail
>>>> >>>>>>> out, first. Move the car on the boom to where you want the
>>>> sail to be
>>>> >>>>>>> attached to the boom. Again, this will cause the sail to
>>>> belly out.
>>>> >>>>>>> Then pull the sail retrieval line to get the proper sail
>>>> shape.
>>>> >>>>>>> Continue the tack, or not.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> If it's really blowing you may have to heave to in order to
>>>> keep the
>>>> >>>>>>> sail under control.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> I always start with less sail than I think I will need and
>>>> >> then lengthen
>>>> >>>>>>> it. I always heave to when retracting sail fully at the
>>>> end of the day
>>>> >>>>>>> because if you learn to heave to, well, you can make the boat
>>>> >> point into
>>>> >>>>>>> the wind at any direction that makes retracting the sail
>>>> work best on
>>>> >>>>>>> your boat with your sails. Experience.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> My, my, my... Aren't we a chatty bunch today? Ninety-some
>>>> emails!
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Art brought up an important point about operating the IMF
>>>> on a
>>>> >>>> port tack.
>>>> >>>>>>>> I
>>>> >>>>>>>> do this too but only slightly off the wind for best
>>>> >> results. I let the
>>>> >>>>>>>> main
>>>> >>>>>>>> sheet go so the sail is luffing and then it's a cinch to
>>>> roll it up.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Here's where I could use some help: If the wind picks up and
>>>> >>>> I decide to
>>>> >>>>>>>> shorten sail, I usually discover that I'm overpowered when
>>>> on a close
>>>> >>>>>>>> reach.
>>>> >>>>>>>> That's when you get heeled over too much. That's when the
>>>> >>>> wind has picked
>>>> >>>>>>>> up and there's a lot of force on the sail. I've found it
>>>> to be quite
>>>> >>>>>>>> difficult to reef in the mail on this point of sail even if
>>>> >> it is a port
>>>> >>>>>>>> tack and absolutely impossible on a starboard tack.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> So what maneuvers or what point of sail would be best to make
>>>> >>>> this easier?
>>>> >>>>>>>> Must I luff up? I don't like doing that because it's so
>>>> chaotic and
>>>> >>>>>>>> sometimes I get blown over to the other tack anyway and the
>>>> >> problem gets
>>>> >>>>>>>> worse. But if there's any wind in the sail at all then it's
>>>> >>>> much harder to
>>>> >>>>>>>> flatten out the sail because the lines are so stressed.
>>>> At least I've
>>>> >>>>>>>> finally learned to cleat off my control lines on the cleats
>>>> >>>> nearer the mast
>>>> >>>>>>>> and not the ones at the end of the boom where I can't always
>>>> >>>> reach them. I
>>>> >>>>>>>> think I've answered my own question. You gotta luff
>>>> >> up. But has anyone
>>>> >>>>>>>> discovered a better procedure?
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Reefing in the jib under these conditions is easier. I
>>>> >>>> usually wait until
>>>> >>>>>>>> I
>>>> >>>>>>>> tack and then keep the jib sheet on the now-windward side
>>>> >> sort of like a
>>>> >>>>>>>> heave to, backwinding the main. Then I can ease the sheet
>>>> out
>>>> >>>> and take the
>>>> >>>>>>>> reefing line while the jib is still full of air.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> >>>> 2/14/2007 4:17 PM
>>>> >>>
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>>>> >>>
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>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> >>
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>>>> >
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