[Rhodes22-list] Question for Brad about Iraq Information (political)

Thu Jul 12 08:56:58 EDT 2007

Wally,

You can get a good briefing on Iraq and AQI (al-Queada in Iraq) by going to:

www.pentagonchannel.com

Click on the Iraq Briefing 11 July 2007 at the top left.  The briefing and
Q&A is forty seven minutes long but, if you hang until about minute 30 you
get a real treat.  The reporter from NBC is "smokin' hot." Let me know if we
at least agree on this one item (no fast-forwarding allowed).

Brad

On 7/12/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Herb, I do see your point and I do agree that we have done some good. I
> asked some additional questions because I think it is important to
> consider
> the costs and the long term consequences. If i had to limit my response to
> "is Iraq better off today"......I would say they are slightly better off
> in
> that less people are being killed.
>
> You say the question is not about the Kurds, Sunnis, or shites,  it is
> about
> the people.These are the people so of course it is about them! It is their
> very differences that make this complicated. This is not like the
> homogeneous societies in Japan or Germany. They were pretty much united in
> war and in defeat. For the most part the people looked alike and had the
> same beliefs. This is not the case in Iraq. So yes this is more
> complicated
> than your average war.
>
> I guess my point was I am more concerned with what is good for the US and
> what is the best way to fight terror. So you don't want to consider if the
> war is worth the cost....well of course that is your choice. I like to
> look
> at the whole equation before coming up with an answer. To not do so seems
> to
> limit objective thinking.
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>
> On 7/11/07, Herb Parsons <HParsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >
> > The question is no more complicated than any other question (and
> answers)
> > about war.
> >
> > Was the United States "better off" after the Civil War? If you were a
> > plantation owner in the south, no. If you were a slave in the south,
> > probably.
> >
> > But, "was the plantation owner better off", or "was the slave better
> off"
> > or any other similarities was NOT the question. The question was "was
> the
> > United States better off".
> >
> > By the same token, the question about Iraq is NOT about the kurds, or
> the
> > Sunni's, it's about the PEOPLE OF IRAQ, and no, it's not a complicated
> > answer. Bet I know what most of them would say if you were to pose it to
> > them...
> >
> > And, the question is NOT whether or not it was "worth it". I was
> > specifically addressing Rummy's ridiculous assertion that "nothing's
> been
> > accomplished". He didn't say that the accomplishments were at too great
> a
> > cost, he said there were none.
> >
> > It's simply not true. Either he's delusional or not telling the truth,
> but
> > facts are facts, there WERE positive things accomplished.
> >
> > Herb Parsons
> >
> > S/V O'Jure
> >   1976 O'Day 25
> >   Lake Grapevine, N TX
> >
> > S/V Reve de Papa
> >   1971 Coronado 35
> >   Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> >
> > >>> "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at gmail.com> 7/11/2007 11:56 AM >>>
> > Herb,
> >
> > You ask a fair question and it is a complicated answer. I would say the
> > Kurds are better off (for now) and  the rest of the country is a mixed
> > bag.
> > If we were both to agree Iraq was better of today you would then need to
> > consider was the gain worth the cost. And if they are better off today
> > what
> > will happen when we leave? Will they still be better of....who knows.
> >
> > I guess I am selfish....to me the question is are we better off. The
> > answer
> > to that is just as complicated but I would say we are not. A quick check
> > of
> > the headlines paints a pretty grim picture in the Middle East. Every
> > terrorist group out there seems as strong as ever and the Taliban is
> > making
> > a come back. We have spent billions on a plan that doesn't provide any
> > protection for our citizens with no end in sight.. Even though Saddam
> was
> > a
> > tyrant he did help keep Iran in check. Now Iran and Iraq seem to be
> > unified
> > in hating us. I don't see the up-side to this whole thing.
> >
> > I wish I didn't know anything about the history of the area and the
> > culture.
> > I would at least think we had a chance.
> >
> > Wally
> > On 7/11/07, Herb Parsons <HParsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rummy,
> > >
> > > You don't get to speak to what I believe. I never said that (though I
> > > may).
> > >
> > > I merely pointed out that you said "nothing has been accomplished".
> You
> > > were wrong.
> > >
> > > You may not LIKE what's been accomplished, but the fact remains that
> > > things have been accomplished.
> > >
> > > I think it's the height of irony (and hypocrisy) when the left decries
> > our
> > > actions in places like Gitmo, then make statements lauding the
> > > "stabilization" that Saddam brought about through mass murder,
> genocide,
> > and
> > > torture.
> > >
> > > So, just to be sure that I don't commit the same wrong as you, that of
> > > putting words into your mouth, I want to be sure I understand you.
> > >
> > > Is it your position is that Iraq was better off under the rule of
> Saddam
> > > than it is now?
> > >
> > > Herb Parsons
> > >
> > > S/V O'Jure
> > >   1976 O'Day 25
> > >   Lake Grapevine, N TX
> > >
> > > S/V Reve de Papa
> > >   1971 Coronado 35
> > >   Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> > >
> > > >>> <R22RumRunner at aol.com> 7/11/2007 6:25 AM >>>
> > > Herb,
> > > Since you still believe that going into Iraq and getting rid of Saddam
> > was
> > > all worth it, what good has come of it. We have destabilized a country
> > > that was
> > > held together by a thread in the first place and opened up an entire
> > > country
> > > for  Al Qaeda to come in and get control over.
> > > If you want to talk about the great schools that have been built but
> are
> > > unfinished because contractors can't find anyone to work. Or perhaps
> the
> > > great
> > > restoration of basic services like water and sewer and electricity
> that
> > > are
> > > barely existent for a few hours each day.
> > > Then there's the little thing about the remainder of the globe that
> > hates
> > > our guts. Yep, all in all I'd say we did one hell of a job.
> > >
> > > Rummy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ************************************** See what's free at
> > > http://www.aol.com.
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