[Rhodes22-list] Has The World Gone Mad?

Thu Nov 8 10:45:12 EST 2007

Brad,

They're not actually suing yet, just threatening to sue, which is a common
legal tactic.  A buddy of mine had a beef with the Previous Owner of his
house and the Agent.  A lawyer friend of ours wrote a "we'll take you to
court..." letter and the caved and settled.  If they had ignored it,
probably wouldn't have ever gone to court.

Now in this case, I agree the the district probably cannot sue, but the
specific individual probably can.  If there posting, in a public forum, that
Joe Blow, the superintendent, actually lied or stole something, then I feel
the Joe can sue them for libel, provided he didn't lie or steal.

Hank

On 11/8/07, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hank,
>
> The real issue here is can a school board sue for libel for an opinion
> stated in a public forum?  I'm not a lawyer, or even a good "sea lawyer",
> but I'd say we're starting down a slippery slope if local elected
> officials
> can chill public comment on the net. Where do we draw the line on who can
> sue?  Obviously the POTUS can't.  The Senate Majority Leader can't, (thank
> goodness Harry you pompous ignorant ass) and so on down the line to the
> local level.  Where do we draw the line?  I see this as a watershed case
> with serious implications.
>
> Brad
>
> On Nov 8, 2007 8:30 AM, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad,
> >
> > The administration didn't try to shut down the website, they just asked
> to
> > have comments that were libelous in nature removed.  Comments that
> accused
> > the board of committing illegal acts.  This is more than just opinions.
> >  If
> > they are unfounded then they are libelous.  The website should be held
> > accountable for information it puts for public purview just as the board
> > should be held accountable for its actions.  It's a two way street.
> >
> > Hank
> >
> >
> > On 11/8/07, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank,
> > >
> > > I don't know what the issues are in Galveston and I don't care - not
> my
> > > backyard.  I call whoever filed the lawsuit an A-hole.  She (the
> website
> > > owner) may be a crank but looking at her website and the comments
> posted
> > > look mild compared to some of the blog postings on the Memphis
> > > Commercial-Appeal's website blogs on the local school district.  Being
> a
> > > public official means you get scrutinized and criticized. If you can't
> > > handle that I suggest you find another line of work.  One of the great
> > > things about this list is that you get honest, open debate from people
> > of
> > > diverse backgrounds with a common link, they all like sailing. Imagine
> > if
> > > some politician tried to stifle us because they didn't like something
> we
> > > said.  That's my real beef with the issue at hand.  If a school
> district
> > > in
> > > Galveston is successful in shutting down a website they disagree with,
> > the
> > > future of the net suddenly doesn't look so bright. Go read Daily Kos
> or
> > > Democratic Underground any given day.  I think those folks are loons
> but
> > > they have their say.  So far the BushHitlerHaliburtonCheney
> > 'dictatorship'
> > > (their words) hasn't made a single effort to shut them down.  We do
> > still
> > > have freedom of speech, don't we?
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > > On Nov 8, 2007 7:49 AM, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Brad,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure who you are calling a-holes, the school administration
> or
> > > the
> > > > lady posting crap on her weblog?  My opinion is that she is a cry
> baby
> > > who
> > > > lost her battle in the proper forum and is not trying to cause as
> much
> > > > strife as possible.  People like her cost school districts and gov't
> > > > administrations tons of money dealing with her unfounded nuisance.
> > > >
> > > > Hank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/8/07, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Rummy,
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps this could be part of the problem (see attached
> > > article).  Some
> > > > of
> > > > > the trouble with public schools is that the administrators have
> > become
> > > > > beholden to too many outside entities other than the people who
> > "own"
> > > > the
> > > > > school in the first place, ie, the local taxpayers. Show me a
> public
> > > > > school
> > > > > where the parents and locals have an interest in the local school
> > > board
> > > > > and
> > > > > I'll show you a school that works. Public schools are supposed to
> be
> > > > > locally
> > > > > funded and controlled, perhaps these A-holes in Galveston don't
> > think
> > > > > they're accountable.  I hope the idiot principal in Illinois gets
> > > tossed
> > > > > by
> > > > > the locals.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > GISD moves ahead with threat to sue parent
> > > > >
> > > > > By Rhiannon Meyers<
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://blogs.galvnews.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=d3b50f42b8a6ebaa14db3521c84fef258a570c787301de7e2c826107fc48e676
> > > > > >
> > > > > The Daily News
> > > > >
> > > > > Published October 31, 2007
> > > > > GALVESTON — The public school district has officially demanded
> that
> > > > parent
> > > > > Sandra Tetley remove what it says is libelous material from her
> Web
> > > site
> > > > > or
> > > > > face a lawsuit for defamation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tetley received a letter Monday from the district's law firm
> > demanding
> > > > she
> > > > > remove what it termed libelous statements and other "legally
> > > offensive"
> > > > > statements posted by her or anonymous users, and refrain from
> > allowing
> > > > > such
> > > > > postings in the future. If she refuses, the district plans to sue
> > her,
> > > > the
> > > > > demand letter states.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tetley said she'll review the postings cited by David Feldman of
> the
> > > > > district's firm Feldman and Rogers. She'll consider the context of
> > the
> > > > > postings and consult attorneys before deciding what to delete.
> > > > >
> > > > > "If it's not worth keeping in there, I'll take it out," she said.
> > "If
> > > in
> > > > > fact it is libelous, I have no problem taking it down."
> > > > >
> > > > > Libel Or Opinion?
> > > > >
> > > > > Feldman said Tetley's Web site — www.gisdwatch.com — contained the
> > > most
> > > > > "personal, libelous invective directed toward a school
> > administrator"
> > > > he's
> > > > > seen in his 31-year career.
> > > > >
> > > > > "It is not the desire of the School District, the Board, or this
> > Firm
> > > to
> > > > > stifle free expression or inhibit robust debate regarding matters
> > > > > pertaining
> > > > > to the operation of the public schools," Feldman wrote in the
> demand
> > > > > letter.
> > > > > "This is solely about the publication of materials that clearly go
> > > > beyond
> > > > > that which is legally and constitutionally encouraged and
> permitted,
> > > and
> > > > > into the realm of what is legally offensive and actionable."
> > > > >
> > > > > Feldman cited 16 examples of what he says are libelous postings.
> > Half
> > > > were
> > > > > posted by Tetley; the other half were posted by anonymous users.
> > > > >
> > > > > The postings accuse Superintendent Lynne Cleveland, trustees and
> > > > > administrators of lying, manipulation, falsifying budget numbers,
> > > using
> > > > > their positions for "personal gain," violating the Open Meetings
> Act
> > > and
> > > > > spying on employees, among other things.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tetley said the postings were opinions only.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Everyone deserves to have their opinion," she said. "I don't
> think
> > > they
> > > > > have a right to make me, or anyone else, take down criticisms of
> > them
> > > > off
> > > > > the Web site. They're not going to force us to take off our
> opinions
> > > > > because
> > > > > we have no other place to go."
> > > > >
> > > > > Tetley said she had not removed any of the postings as of late
> > > Tuesday.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rare Move
> > > > >
> > > > > One legal expert said the district's move to sue Tetley is rare
> and
> > > > > unlawful. Under the 1964 Supreme Court case New York Times v.
> > > Sullivan,
> > > > > government entities cannot sue for libel — any court would toss
> out
> > > the
> > > > > "threatening" suit as being inconsistent with U.S. law, said
> Sandra
> > > > Baron,
> > > > > executive director of New-York based Media Law Resource Center.
> She
> > > > called
> > > > > the district's potential lawsuit an intimidation tactic and a
> waste
> > of
> > > > > taxpayer dollars.
> > > > >
> > > > > Feldman said the district is only asking Tetley to remove a small
> > > > > percentage
> > > > > of postings on her site that he says accuse trustees and
> > > administrators
> > > > of
> > > > > breaking the law. They're not trying to shut down the blog or
> > > eliminate
> > > > > postings, he said.
> > > > >
> > > > > "How can that be threatening or initmidating?" he said. "There's a
> > > > > tremendous amount of dialogue, if you will, on that Web log that
> > we're
> > > > not
> > > > > touching with a pole ... What we leave is this huge field of free
> > > > > expression
> > > > > and discourse. There's debate and then there's libel. Debate all
> you
> > > > want,
> > > > > criticize all you want, but don't accuse people of committing
> crimes
> > > > when
> > > > > you have absolutely no evidence to support that."
> > > > >
> > > > > More than 130 registered users post on Tetley's site. Since
> trustees
> > > > > threatened legal action, more people have been visiting the site
> and
> > > > > posting, Tetley said. She said she planned to post Feldman's
> letter
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > site.
> > > > >
> > > > > "People are very tired of what this type of government is doing,"
> > > Tetley
> > > > > said. "They are using our money to silence us."
> > > > >
> > > > > The law firm monitored the site for months before trustees took
> > > action.
> > > > > Board President David O'Neal said the postings deter potential
> > > employees
> > > > > from working at the district.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tetley and her group, Galveston Alliance for Neighborhood schools,
> > has
> > > > > long
> > > > > criticized the district for reconfiguring its middle schools,
> > closing
> > > > > elementary schools, meeting in executive sessions some claimed
> were
> > > > > illegal,
> > > > > refusing to divulge the contents of a letter from a civil rights
> > > > > consultant
> > > > > and for issuing a budget forecast that was off by $10 million.
> > > > >
> > > > > The district's controversial reconfiguration, to go into effect in
> > > > > 2008-09,
> > > > > prompted Tetley to start the site.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's often difficult to prove a public official has been libeled.
> > > Aside
> > > > > from
> > > > > proving the libelous statements are damaging, public officials
> must
> > > also
> > > > > prove actual malice. Actual malice means knowing a statement is
> > false
> > > or
> > > > > having reckless disregard for the truth.
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 8, 2007 7:18 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brad,
> > > > > > Obviously this girl has a real social problem that should
> probably
> > > > only
> > > > > be
> > > > > > addressed by the hugging police. Only they will know how to deal
> > > with
> > > > > such
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > hardened criminal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rummy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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