[Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
Todd Tavares
sprocket80 at mail.com
Mon Dec 1 20:27:13 EST 2008
Herb,
If you say a person, (assuming a sane person) even one who does not
follow a religious belief system or obligation, acts according to what
ever he feels is right and wrong, I think then by definition all men have
morals--Christian, criminal, fanatic or fallibilist. My point is that to
be safe in his conviction and environment, even a non-religious person
must have faith that others (geographically) around him in society also
have an acceptable regard for right and wrong. I wasn't stating a fact,
just poking fun at what has already been said here---that even a humanist
mus have faith.
Todd T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Parsons"
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:04:46 -0600
On what do you base the notion that "all men (and women) have
morals"?
Are you prepared to face some evidence that your assumption is wrong?
Todd Tavares wrote:
> Herb, " if a man does NOT have
> religion (of some sort), then his morals are based only on what he
> believes to be right or wrong. Good point. But those who believe
there
> is nothing greater than ourselves and when we die it is "game over"
must have
> faith that all men have some base set of morals. I have faith that
all
> men (and women) have morals. I guess this means I should stop
carrying my
> .357? :^D
> Todd T
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Herb Parsons"
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:57:14 -0600
>
>
> Right after I hit send, it occurred to me, I did not directly
answer
> your question.
>
> No, I am not of the opinion that man would not have morals without
> religion. I AM of the opinion though, that if a man does NOT have
> religion (of some sort), then his morals are based only on what he
> believes to be right or wrong. And, as we know, human nature is a
> fickle
> entity, and personally guided beliefs are subject to change on a
> whim.
>
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Herb, I am not religious but I don't knock those that are. I
would
> have to
> > trash to many friends and family.
> >
> > Are you of the opinion that man would not have morals/values
> without
> > religion? I would suggest the values may have come first. Then
once
> > established the Bible, Koran and such were written. Most animals
> have a
> > level of acceptable herd/pack behaviour.
> >
> > Regarding karma....if you treat people like trash most likely
> others will
> > treat you the same. Like the old expression what goes around
comes
> around.
> > For me nothing religious about it.
> >
> > Fair Winds,
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Herb Parsons wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You caught that, huh?
> >>
> >> When I asked on here what constituted "extremists" in religion,
> one of
> >> the responses I got, when you boiled it down, was that basically
> if you
> >> belong to any of the mainstream religions, and actually believe
> what
> >> they preach, you're an extremist.
> >>
> >> I would appear that we are heading for a time when "religion" is
> >> acceptable only when the churches are social or political
> organizations.
> >> In other words, belonging to a church will be acceptable as long
> as your
> >> church isn't religious.
> >>
> >> That will be a sad state of affairs on a nation whose roots are
> founded
> >> in freedom of religion.
> >>
> >> Even Slim hinted at a "religious belief" though he probably
won't
> >> acknowledge it as such:
> >>
> >> "Karma--what goes around comes round--I wouldn't argue with that
> >> although I don't think that's a hard and fast rule."
> >>
> >> I have to wonder, even if it's not a "hard and fast rule", even
if
> it's
> >> something that only happens most of the time - what is the
> actuating
> >> mechanism? What would cause the karma to take effect. Is it
magic?
> Is it
> >> the great force of the universe that intervenes from time to
time
> to
> >> keep things in balance? Is it the Judeo-Christian God saying "I
> meant it
> >> when I siad you mow what you sow"? Whatever supernatural entity
> that
> >> Slim believes keeps karma in balance is (at least one of) his
> god(s). He
> >> may not worship that god, but in his statement, he's at least
> >> acknowledging its existence.
> >>
> >> THAT was the point of my post that prompted his latest. And I
> STILL find
> >> it ironic that those that denigrate mainstream religion will
> freely
> >> embrace other "belief" based systems.
> >>
> >> One of Slim's fellow musicians once said:
> >>
> >> You may call me anything but no matter what you say
> >> You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
> >> You're gonna have to serve somebody.
> >> Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
> >> But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
> >>
> >>
> >> And sorry all you science buffs, there is nothing scientific
that
> >> supports morality. You MAY make the argument that it's better
> socially,
> >> but that's not a scientific study. If all we're looking for is
to
> "get
> >> the most" out of our three score and ten, then Ghengis Khan may
> have had
> >> a better idea.
> >>
> >> BTW, I have friends, close friends, that include a broad variety
> of
> >> religious beliefs, including agnostics and atheists. It's funny
> that in
> >> spite of my "kooky" beliefs and "extremism", I can find room for
> them
> >> and their beliefs, but some of the libs on here have no room for
> mine.
> >>
> >>
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>
> >>> Herb,
> >>>
> >>> The irony of Slim's rant is that he denigrates one set of
> beliefs, and
> >>> then goes on to defend his own set of beliefs (atheism). As a
> >>> practicing agnostic, I don't "have a dog in this hunt" other
than
> >>> having a diverse collection of friends of all faiths.
> >>>
> >>> I've said it before and I'll say it again, those who preach
> tolerance
> >>> the most are often the most intolerant.
> >>>
> >>> Brad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Herb Parsons
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Slim,
> >>>>
> >>>> I simply believe you're wrong. Not that you're a kook, not
that
> you're
> >>>> an idiot. Simply that you're wrong.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have no need to label your beliefs as "extreme" or "kookie"
or
> >>>> anything else like that, just that they I believe they're
wrong.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand the need for you and others like you to
> denigrate the
> >>>> beliefs of others. When you call the beliefs of others
"myths",
> you
> >>>> begin down that road. When you start refer to it by saying
> "Merry
> >>>> Christmas", you've become obnoxious about it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Think about this, think if you came to me in the little bar we
> all like
> >>>> to discuss, and said "Hey man, music is my life, I LOVE music"
> and
> >>>> responded "Anyone who devotes a life to changing air waves is
an
> idiot
> >>>> and a looser", what would be your response?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Steven Alm wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You keep bringing this up I suppose out of some kind of
> indignation.
> >>>>>
> >> As a
> >>
> >>>>> Christian, I don't blame you. You have every right to your
> religious
> >>>>> beliefs--I just don't adhere to them myself and I see
religious
> >>>>>
> >> extremism as
> >>
> >>>>> a threat to our civilization. Not that I think you, yourself
> are an
> >>>>> extremist per se (and I don't know you're not) but extremism
in
> >>>>>
> >> general, no
> >>
> >>>>> matter what religion, will bring nothing but conflict. I
> remember
> >>>>>
> >> hearing
> >>
> >>>>> an interview with Hamid Karzai who was asked, "If you could
say
> >>>>>
> >> something to
> >>
> >>>>> Osama Bin Laden, what would you say?" His answer was, "I
would
> tell
> >>>>>
> >> him
> >>
> >>>>> he's not a Muslim." He's wrong. Osama IS a Muslim. An extreme
> >>>>>
> >> Muslim.
> >>
> >>>>> Extremism is the enemy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You talked about transubstantiation. Many Christian
> denominations
> >>>>>
> >> believe
> >>
> >>>>> in that or something close. Or they believe in some kind of
> >>>>>
> >> representation
> >>
> >>>>> of that but it's all the same anyway--it's ritualized
> cannibalism. No
> >>>>> thanks! From that, all the way back to the talking snake, to
> me, it
> >>>>>
> >> sounds
> >>
> >>>>> like a myth. I'm not buyin' it. It's just too kooky.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for the other stuff you mentioned--Karma--what goes around
> comes
> >>>>> around--I wouldn't argue with that although I don't think
> that's a hard
> >>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>> fast rule. Reincarnation--I doubt it. Ghosts--no opinion.
Don't
> need
> >>>>> one. The existence of God? The invisible man in the sky who
> knows
> >>>>>
> >> when you
> >>
> >>>>> are sleeping and knows when you're awake...? Merry Christmas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can have your beliefs, Herb, but I think it's all a myth.
> Religion
> >>>>> throughout all civilizations serve to answer three questions:
> Where
> >>>>>
> >> did we
> >>
> >>>>> come from? How shall we live? What happens when we die?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe I'm the kook but I believe in nature and I believe in
> love. I
> >>>>>
> >> believe
> >>
> >>>>> that when you die it's "game over" so live right--it's your
> only chance
> >>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>> be a man.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Slim
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Herb Parsons >>>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I read an interesting study the other day. It asserted (and
> I'll
> >>>>>>
> >> openly
> >>
> >>>>>> say, I'll have a hard time finding it again, and even harder
> time
> >>>>>> vouching for it's veracity) that folks who claim to NOT
> believe in
> >>>>>>
> >> God,
> >>
> >>>>>> actually have more "faith based" beliefs than deists do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Beliefs in "karma", "reincarnation", "ghosts", and yes, even
> "global
> >>>>>> warming morality" beliefs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lots of "religious kookiness" to go around.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My point at the time was the hypocrisy though. The person
> throwing
> >>>>>> around "religious kooks" labels was openly willing to vote
for
> the VP
> >>>>>> candidate that is a practicing member of a religion that
> openly
> >>>>>>
> >> teaches
> >>
> >>>>>> that when the priest blesses the wine and wafer, it
> miraculously
> >>>>>>
> >> becomes
> >>
> >>>>>> both the blood and body of Christ Jesus.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I AM saying folks should
> be much
> >>>>>> more careful with their "kook" labels. Faith is a precious
> thing, and
> >>>>>> one of the foundations of the nation in which we live.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's a saying - Dance with the one what brung ya.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I say we should be careful about laughing at the one that
> brung us.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, let's be honest here - you are a "religious kook"
> because you
> >>>>>>> have religious beliefs. There's nothing wrong with that,
it's
> just
> >>>>>>> that you don't belong to the church of global warming or
> whatever the
> >>>>>>> accepted church of the day is. The people who preach
> tolerance the
> >>>>>>> most are the most intolerant people I know. Racist? I'll
pay
> a
> >>>>>>> hundred bucks to anyone who can trace my family tree and
> figure out
> >>>>>>> what race I am. Make it a thousand for my daughter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Herb Parsons <
> >>>>>>>
> >> hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Much like the political mood of the country, my moods
swing
> >>>>>>>>
> >> different
> >>
> >>>>>>>> ways. While you have been reading the posts the last two
> months, you
> >>>>>>>> missed those before that. Those where, attempts at
rational
> >>>>>>>>
> >> discussion
> >>
> >>>>>>>> were met with "religious kook" and "racist" and, one of my
> all time
> >>>>>>>> favorites "democrats are the thinkers and debaters,
> republicans are
> >>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>> just believers". Attempts at rational discussion were
> one-sided. I
> >>>>>>>>
> >> would
> >>
> >>>>>>>> ask what made one a religious kook, and was just met with
> additional
> >>>>>>>> abuse. I would ask how my view made me racist, and simply
be
> met
> >>>>>>>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>>>>>>> more abuse. Eventually, I decided to agree with Elle's (as
> of that
> >>>>>>>>
> >> time
> >>
> >>>>>>>> unvoiced opinion) that sometimes the "c" works.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But, I'll play nicely. I'll always play at least as nice,
> and may
> >>>>>>>>
> >> even
> >>
> >>>>>>>> go the extra step for a while.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I understand and I agree with you. I did not mean to
> suggest that
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> were being irrational. But you got the point because you
> said:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "It may be 'stooping to the same level', it may be
> unnecessary, it
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> may
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> (and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational.
> Countering
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> personal attack with another one is not only rational, it
> can often
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Therefore, what I meant to suggest is that as smart a
> person as you
> >>>>>>>>> obviously are, I believe you could find a way to
> instructionally
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> counter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> what you perceive to be a personal attack without
stooping
> to the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> same
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> level or escalating things while still satisfying your
> release
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mechanism.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I've read all of your posts over the last two months. I
> know you
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> intellect and the capability. The only question is
whether
> you
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> desire. Why not give it a try? I don't see any downside.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Actually, I worded that deliberately. If someone chooses
> to take a
> >>>>>>>>>> person's view, and attack them personally for their
view,
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> attack
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> may or may not be "rational". Here's examples:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> John Doe says "Historically, more white collar crimes
are
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> committed by
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> white people". Responding to that by saying "John,
you're
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> racist"
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> would be irrational. The view does not fit the comment,
> because
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> John
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> merely repeating a fact.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> However, if John Doe says "I hate all those white
people",
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> would
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> NOT
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> be irrational to say "John, you're a racist", since his
> his view
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> is a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> racist view.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> At the same time, a personal "counter attack" is NOT
> irrational.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> It
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> may
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> be "stooping to the same level", it may be unnecessary,
it
> may
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> (and
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> Countering a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> personal attack with another one is not only rational,
it
> can
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> often be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I would say that those that are offended by such things
> would be
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> well
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> served not to BEGIN them. I will also so, you are the
> exception to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> rule on here, and frankly, one of the few I've seen that
> really
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> has a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> reason to complain.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are a rational person (and I think you are), why
> wouldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> always repond rationally regardless of what the other
> person does
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> or
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> says?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying in a way that you are more than willing
to
> stoop
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> someone else's level? If so, I think you are demeaning
> yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
> >>>>>>>>>>> that's why some of these things sometimes spin out of
> control.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> Stay
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> above
> >>>>>>>>>>> the fray. You're better than that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Apology accepted with one small note. If you were to
go
> back and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> look
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> closer at my previous emails, I believe you'd see
little
> change
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm "doing of late". I respond to rational discussions
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> rationally. I
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> respond to irrational ones in a way I feel
appropriate.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Hank. When I reviewed the exchange,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it was clear that I misunderstood Hank's message.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I went over the line, and owe Herb an apology.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, of late you have been easier to take, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your message was rational. I am in the wrong.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hank wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to call foul on this one. Herb came back with
a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> reasonable
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your email, did not attack you, was calm and
cool,
> and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> huffy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and complain? You have just lost any credibility or
> right to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> bitch
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone else's posts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hank
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Robert Skinner
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you got the last word - a lot of last words...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You win. I have no further desire to talk to you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satisfied?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mandate? I wasn't talking about a mandate, I was
> talking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> about
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fading off into the sunset.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a big believer in the "mandate" stuff. A
> politician
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter if he's elected by a 1% margin,
or
> a 90%
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> margin,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected, and he needs to start fulfilling the
> promises and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commitments
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he made to those that elected him. If Obama can do
> that,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> I'll be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised. I don't think he can, nor do I think he
> will.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> That's
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> why
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly upset by the results.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He made a lot of overt commitments that I don't
> think he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> will be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and that's not even considering all the
> "implied"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> promises.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected on a campaign of "let's take it away from
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> minority
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to the majority", and LOTS of people are
> expecting more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> than
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> he
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to deliver. Don't pooh pooh those accounts
> of people
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reporting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about how happy they are that he's going to take
> care of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> their
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> gas
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their mortgages.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then add to that the possible disaster that I see
> looming in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq/Afghanistan. There's no doubt that the
"implied
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> promise"
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he will get us out of Iraq, and begin fighting in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> Afghanistan
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver up Bin Laden.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If he pulls out of Iraq fast enough to suit his
left
> wing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will make Vietnam look like a policy masterpiece.
We
> will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> literally
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pulling snatching victory away. If Iraq then falls
> into a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> mess
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened in Vietnam, shame shame shame (I had a
typo
> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corrected, but it still fits - same shame shame).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, we go into Afghanistan, and have the same
> resounding
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "success"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed by the Russians. I don't believe we have
the
> stomach
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> as
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fight a man to man ground war that is required
in
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mountains
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Afghanistan. If we won't let our military succeed
in
> Iraq,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> we
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not in Afghanistan.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, do you REALLY think he's going to deliver up
> Bin Laden?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect we're going to be hearing a LOT of "We
may
> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> succeed
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> term..."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope though, that people have a good memory. I
> know I did
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> when
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't vote for "read my lips" President Bush '41.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, no mandate needed. He just needs to
start
> doing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> what
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> he
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promised to do. I think the next two years are
going
> to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that the voters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to mandates, he has done
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot better than his predecessor.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are undeniable advantages to verbal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills when communicating -- a talent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conspicuous in its absence in Bush.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to Reagan, at least he could string a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few words together without tripping on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his tongue -- that was my point. It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served him well in negotiations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You DO understand the difference between an
> orator, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oratory skills. Surely you're not saying that
> after
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> hearing
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speech to the RNC that she had NO oratory
skills?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does having (or not having) an oratory
ability
> reflect
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> lack
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence) of anti-intellectual attitudes?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Robert, your guy won the election, but he
> did not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> receive a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mandate for the rest of the world to blindly
> become like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> him
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, you used Reagan as an example, but you
seem
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> overlook
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinkers" and intellectual community were
> saying
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> about
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> him
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all of Carter's deep thinking and oratory
> abilities,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> he
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> let a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of "students" hold us hostage for over a year.
My
> personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> result
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actions during that disgraceful period were in a
> large
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> part
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for 9-11.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take those radicals, who we were TOTALLY
> unsuccessful in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> dealing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and multiply them by 10 fold. THAT is what the
> orator and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> deep
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinker
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is going to deal with. That's OK though, because
> he's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> already
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear that he's willing to sit down with any of
> them and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> "talk".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll see what the oratory and talk gets us.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, I think that a person who has some
oratory
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills will be a help in negotiations with the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international community. They do not have the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anti-intellectual attitude that has been
anything
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but an asset as we interact with the world's
best
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brains.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robtert (and others like him) are looking at
> Palin from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> far
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view. They're somehow under the illusion that
we
> WANT an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "orator"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinker". It's funny the two he compared
> her
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> (negatively)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regan, who the Democrats lambasted much the
same
> way
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> they
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> did
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (remember when he talked about Star Wars
> defense, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> they
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derisively calling him Ray-Gun?), and
President
> Jimmy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Carter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carter!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, a great orator, a great guy in general, a
> good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Christian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> joke of a President. If that's what oratory
> ability and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> deep
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gets us, give me the common man (or woman)
> instead!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it seems you've bought into the MSM
meme
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> haven't
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own homework. I suggest you do your own due
> diligence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gov.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very real accomplishments before you let
other
> people
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> do
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you. Unlike Obama's long string of
failures
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chicago,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point to real successes. Frankly, I'm not
> impressed by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harvard
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree in law or anything else. For the sake
of
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> country,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a successful Obama Presidency. As for me
> and my
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> family,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "we're
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded for bear". How anyone can believe that
a
> leader
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> with a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mediocre track record following failed
economic
> themes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> can
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successful is beyond me. No one will be more
> happily
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all works out OK than myself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Robert
Skinner
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly, she is no "Great Communicator."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will never see "Bedtime for Palin."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nor, I suspect, will we hear about a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carteresque "lusting in the heart."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, Brad.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But is too early to expect that Bambizilla
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will retire from the political scene. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspect that the GOP spinsters will find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some way to use her, perhaps as a contrast,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straw woman, to a real Republican orator
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or deep thinker to spark up the 2012
campaign.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But for the next two years, I hope, we can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get working on the nation's business. We can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope that Obama can calm the fears and tame
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the chaos of an economy headed for the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumpster. We will also see if he can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extricate us gracefully from Iraq and
succeed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in bringing down the terrorist franchises.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hoping,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very cute.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And now....before she fades into the
sunset,
> some
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> final
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin....
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "My concern has been the atrocities there
in
> Darfur
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance to me
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with that issue as we spoke about Africa
and
> some of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that were kind of the people succumbing to
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> dictators
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corruption
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of some collapsed governments on the
> continent, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alaska's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment in Darfur with some of our
> permanent fund
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, she concluded, "never, ever did I talk
> about,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> well,
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gee,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country or a continent, I just don't know
> about this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> issue."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know, I know... her heart is in the right
> place
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> (and so
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few other
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R22RumRunner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No Hard Feelings...to the democrats
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The election day is over,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The talking is done.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My party lost, your party won.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So let us be friends,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let arguments pass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll hug my elephant,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You kiss your ass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar.
> Showtimes,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theaters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movie news &
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more!(
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>
>
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p://
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
using
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
__________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
__________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list go
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> go to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to
> >>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list
> go to
> >>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list
> go to
> >>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Herb Parsons
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Herb Parsons
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
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