[Rhodes22-list] Politics: How 'Bout That Bill Effros?

Wed Dec 31 08:22:21 EST 2008

Bill, I did notice your response has nothing to do with what I posted. Nor
does it address your incorrect assumptions about me. I guess you are ok with
your errors and just want to change the subject. Duly noted. Again I didn't
vote for O. If Fitz has the goods so be it. Prosecute.

Just because I don't post hundreds of anti Obama emails doesn't mean I think
he is above the law. We have due process. Let it happen. Do I believe
Fitz......well I would need to see some evidence and we have courts for
that.

Wally

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Wally,
>
> Did you notice that Blagojevich just selected someone to serve as
> Senator from the State of Illinois?
>
> The person is black, a Democrat, qualified, and in no way connected (as
> far as we know) to the issue of "selling Obama's Senate seat."
>
> However, the Democrats have backed themselves into a corner of
> Fitzpatrick's making.  They have called Blagojevich (the duly twice
> elected, un-indicted, Governor of the State of Illinois) a liar, and a
> crook--and they have said they will not honor any of his legally
> performed duties based on their decision that whatever it is Fitzpatrick
> has charged, (and the wiretaps he has illegally disclosed) are as good
> as convictions as far as they are concerned.  IN THIS CASE (please read
> the words carefully) the accusation is as good as a conviction.
>
> Both Mr. Obama and Mr. Blogojevich were named as un-indicted co-schemers
> IN THIS CASE.  Mr. Fitzpatrick has charged that both participated in a
> giant "pay to play" scheme in the State of Illinois, and he warned the
> whole nation that "The defendants and their associates put the word out
> loud and clear: YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY IN ILLINOIS."
>
> Mr. Obama is one of the named defendants IN THIS CASE.  The FBI had him
> under surveillance even before he became a Senator.  They produced
> photographs of Obama attending meetings he said never happened.
> Informants described bribes paid to Obama, and the FBI tracked the
> payments right into Obama's bank accounts--the same way they tracked
> Eliot Spitzer's prostitute payments.
>
> What will the Democrats say about Mr. Obama's decisions when he is drawn
> into this case?  Just another "bone-headed play?"
>
> What will you say?
>
> When Mr. Fitzpatrick called Mr. Blagojevich a liar and crook last May, I
> believed him.  When Mr. Fitzpatrick said Mr. Obama was also a liar and a
> crook I believed him also.
>
> Do you believe Fitzpatrick?  Or not?
>
> Bill Effros
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Bill,Get a freaking clue and get off your high horse. Take your own
> advice
> > and be careful. I have not called anybody a racist. I did not even vote
> for
> > Obama. Do you think I am calling my self a racist? Your assumptions about
> me
> > are based on your own ignorance and bias. Play the race card with some
> one
> > who gives a shit. Do you just make stuff up as you go?
> >
> > I gathered from your dozens (hundreds) of anti O post you hated him. You
> > have called him a liar, crook and a racist. So now you claim you do not
> hate
> > him. Ok if you say so. I guess you are showing tough love. Frankly I
> don't
> > care. I didn't vote for O.
> >
> >  Pat B has some good ideas and plenty of bad ones. . Mostly I think his
> > international views are idiotic. I am sure he has a decent IQ.
> >
> >  Every time you bring race up it makes me wonder why.  So ask your self
> why
> > you responded to MY post with your race implications? Who is guilty of
> > making assumptions? Frankly Bill your response to me was way off base.
> Race
> > didn't have anything to do with any of my post.You are confused  and
>  also
> > an idiot  if you think other wise.Were you confused?
> >
> > Oh yeah.....I don't think Israel is over reacting.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Wally,
> >>
> >> Be careful of falling into propaganda stereotypes.  First, anyone who
> >> disagreed with Obama's candidacy was a racist.  Now, it has become
> >> "obvious you hate".
> >>
> >> I don't "hate" Mr. Obama, so my personal feelings toward him are, by
> >> definition, not obvious.
> >>
> >> Brad, and I, and countless others--including many Obama supporters at
> >> the highest levels--warned the Obama transition team not to permit the
> >> perception of a policy vacuum to encourage world-wide complication of
> >> United States foreign policy objectives.  Mr. Obama had no compunctions
> >> about stating his views on foreign policy prior to his election--in fact
> >> he ran on the platform of repudiating Mr. Bush's foreign policy, and
> >> telling the whole world he would reverse that policy in virtually every
> >> area--including Israel.
> >>
> >> Mr. Obama has repeatedly violated his "one president at a time" mantra
> >> when it suits him, most obviously in the domestic economic policy
> >> sphere, where he is dictating the bills he wants on his desk the moment
> >> he is inaugurated.
> >>
> >> I disagree with Mr. Buchanan on many many things, but an "idiot" he is
> >> not.  He is smart, principled, consistent, and a much better scholar of
> >> American history than I, and most other Americans.
> >>
> >> I do now, and have long agreed with his consistent position that
> >> supporting Israeli attacks on civilian populations comports with neither
> >> our goals nor our values.
> >>
> >> Obama's silence on this matter at this time will hurt him and us
> >> strategically and morally.  We have allowed Israeli politics to trump
> >> our own national interests.  One could easily interpret Team Obama's
> >> silence in the same way we interpreted Team Bush's silence on the
> >> aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
> >>
> >> Lives are being lost right now.  Good will is being flushed down the
> >> toilet.  The voices of peace and reconciliation are being drowned out
> >> both by the belligerence of those on the right, and the silence of those
> >> on the left.
> >>
> >> Winning elections is not supposed to be the end of imposing your values
> >> on the political sphere, it is supposed to be the beginning.
> >>
> >> Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bill, I suppose he could say that but shouldn't Bush speak for the US?
> I
> >>>
> >> am
> >>
> >>> not sure if I agree with Pat. Bush's mouth piece has come out in
> support
> >>>
> >> of
> >>
> >>> the action. For Obama to come out against would be counter productive.
> It
> >>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>> obvious you hate O. Your advice seems foolish. I would advise him the
> >>>
> >> exact
> >>
> >>> opposite.
> >>>
> >>> I think Pat B is an idiot.
> >>>
> >>> Wally
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Wally,
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is what Pat Buchanan has to say on this issue:
> >>>>
> >>>> "While the United States must support Israel's right to defend her
> towns
> >>>> and to strike bases from which Israelis are being attacked, Obama
> should
> >>>> denounce the collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians in
> Gaza,
> >>>> by Israel's cutting off their electricity in the dead of winter and
> >>>> denying them the food and medicine many need to survive.
> >>>>
> >>>> For us to remain silent in the face of this comports neither with our
> >>>> interests or our values. Israel's policy of withholding from the weak
> >>>> and innocent of Gaza, women and children, the necessities of life, to
> >>>> punish the guilty who rule at the point of a gun, is a policy that
> Obama
> >>>> should declare the United States will no longer support with tax
> >>>>
> >> dollars."
> >>
> >>>> To paraphrase another part of the same article, "Obama can't just sit
> >>>> mute at the table like the 'dummy' in a game of bridge."
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bill, What should Obama be doing? Should he fly to Crawford and join
> >>>>>
> >> Bush
> >>
> >>>> on
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> vacation? Perhaps go Grouse hunting with Dick C.? Heck what should
> Bush
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> do?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The only control we have over Israel is money. They will do as they
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> please.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> If Hanas attacks they will respond. Rightly so. It would be hard fo
> use
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> be critical of this considering our attack on Iraq.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think Israel is itching to fight and if Hamas continues to provoke
> >>>>>
> >> they
> >>
> >>>>> will get pounded even worse. The last Isreali ops in Lebanon did not
> >>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>> the normal kick ass results.  I think both Hamas and Hezbollah were
> >>>>> emboldened by the poor Israeli tactics.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I suspect Israel will take care of any nuke plants in Iran long
> before
> >>>>>
> >> we
> >>
> >>>>> feel the urge.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you see it different?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wally
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ed,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 150 people who were alive yesterday morning are dead this morning
> >>>>>> because Israel massively attacked Gaza.  That includes women and
> >>>>>> children because the Israeli's attacked targets at a time that
> ensured
> >>>>>> civilian casualties.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> They attacked when no one in this country was on the job.  Right now
> >>>>>>
> >> we
> >>
> >>>>>> have no President at all.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Obama is on both sides of this issue--where are you?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tootle wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bill:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> He is not President of USA yet.  You want him stirring the pot like
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Captain
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rummy?  He said that there is only one President at a time.  Calm
> >>>>>>>
> >> down,
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> enjoy the holidays.  While the liquor stores are still open go get
> a
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> bottle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> of Mt. Gay Rum.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ed K
> >>>>>>> addendum from where there is a lot of snow:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Think of yourself as on the threshold of unparalleded sucess.  A
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> whole,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> clear, glorious life lies before you.  Achieve! Achieve! - Andrew
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Carnegie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (borrowed from from the cover of the Pennsylvania Travel Guide.)( I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> would
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> have expected some of the native Pennsylvanians on this forum to
> have
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> quoted
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> that.  Where is Ben C, Frone, John S., et al????)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>  __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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