[Rhodes22-list] History
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Wed Dec 31 13:38:56 EST 2008
JB,
That is, and I don't mean this sarcastically, one of the best put ways
of saying what should be said that I've ever seen on this list.
JbTek wrote:
> That's good history to know.
> When I signed up about 2 years ago, (that seams to be when it started
> downhill) I was refered to by Stan also. I saw all the political crap & was
> dissappointed....and said so. I got a shorter version of the same
> explanation & then understood. I was told this was not Stans list....by
> Stan.
> I agree with you nothing should be done different, the charter covers it. My
> problem is that some people insult you in such a nice way, it's allowed ...&
> when someone comes right out & says it, it's a bad thing. I was disgusted by
> some of the things said about our last President, I just as disgusted that
> some people won't even give the new one a chance.
> Jb
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
>
>
>
>> Jb,
>>
>> Michael built and maintained Stan's website. In return, Stan would tow
>> Michael's boat to Edenton every winter, upgrade it, install "test"
>> equipment, bottom paint it, and get it back to Michael in time for an
>> early launch.
>>
>> At some point, Michael suggested the formation of an email group so that
>> people could ask each other all the questions that Stan couldn't
>> possibly respond to...even if he owned a computer, and knew how to use it.
>>
>> Michael put links on Stan's website so both existing owners and newbies
>> could find "da list". (Remember, Google is only 10 years old -- it was
>> difficult for anyone other than a computer geek to find anything on the
>> Internet, and email lists were not indexed.) Almost everyone who got on
>> "da list" at that time was sent here by Stan, both from his website and
>> from in-person recommendations both before and after boat purchases.
>>
>> I know I got here because Stan suggested I could learn a lot from people
>> on the list. I know many others who got here the same way.
>>
>> Michael is one of the smartest people on the planet. In the early days,
>> he would answer 9 out of 10 questions asked. He talked to Stan
>> regularly, and when he didn't know the answer, and felt it was a good
>> question, he would call Stan after hours and come up with the technical
>> information the rest of us sought.
>>
>> We hopped onto the Sailnet list server at some point. They wanted to be
>> a web portal for sailers. They offered free list-hosting. As they grew
>> they encountered growing pains. They switched software, and lost
>> everyone on the list in the process. Those of us who cared, contacted
>> everyone else back-channel and told them what had happened and what they
>> had to do to get back on the list. I believe we had 34 members at that
>> point.
>>
>> Then Sailnet started selling things, and made a rule that no one else
>> could sell anything on any list they hosted. Then they started
>> monitoring lists to enforce the rule, and bouncing out people who
>> violated their rule.
>>
>> We started looking for another way to run our list, and Michael came up
>> with the Mailman Program which he hosted and maintained as administrator.
>>
>> At some point Stan learned to use a computer, and started providing
>> information directly to the list. What a treat! When somebody got
>> something wrong, or had a better way to solve a problem, the guy who
>> built the boat would actually discuss the issue on an open forum!
>>
>> Michael was plugged into the blogging community before anyone used the
>> word "blog". He would get jokes, and "insider info" and post it to the
>> list long before any other sailor had access to what he posted. Some
>> complained that it was "off-topic" but Stan always said he loved it, and
>> didn't give a damn if anyone didn't think it was funny, or disagreed
>> with anyone else's political views. And, he said, living in Edenton, he
>> wasn't locally exposed to a lot of cultural stuff he took for granted
>> living near NYC.
>>
>> "Bring it on" said Stan, "and don't worry about killing a boat
>> sale--this is much more fun--be yourself--respect each other--Michael
>> taught me how to use the delete key."
>>
>> Food fights would erupt from time to time over the exact same issues.
>> Politics and Religion were both banned at some point, so people started
>> inserting their political views in the form of often vicious jokes. The
>> only way anyone could object to the joke was to explain it in political
>> terms. The prohibition against Politics was dropped with the mandate
>> that all political discussion had to be preceded on the subject line by
>> the word Politics:
>>
>> How to use filters to toss all email labeled "Politics:" into anyone's
>> junk folder was repeatedly explained so that anyone not wishing to see
>> this stuff would never even know others on the list were actively
>> discussing these topics.
>>
>> Later, a rule was instituted mandating that Jokes: also appears on the
>> subject line when the content is jokes.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> At some point the list turned on Stan. It wasn't anyone's fault, it was
>> just the normal evolution of the Internet.
>>
>> Some of the people who had been with the list for a long time opted to
>> purchase other boats. They started singing the praises of their boats,
>> on Stan's list, and urging others to trade in Stan's boat for one
>> bigger, or better, or more ostentatious.
>>
>> Then people who would never have been able to find each other started
>> selling boats directly to each other, and cutting Stan out of the middle
>> -- "Stan offered me $10,000 for this boat, so you know he's going to
>> sell it for $20,000 -- I'll sell it to anyone on the list for $15,000."
>>
>> Then people started offering to fabricate parts for Stan's boat--"Send
>> me the specifications on that trailer, and I'll make one for you for 1/2
>> what Stan would charge."
>>
>> Over time they hijacked Stan's list. Stan objected several times, and
>> many people on the list went out of their way to only buy through Stan.
>> But, in the end, Stan stopped participating on a regular basis, and took
>> the list off his web site.
>>
>> But, it's still Stan's list, and Stan is still the common link for most
>> of us. He can't use it as a sales tool anymore, but he still can have
>> fun with old friends...just as it says in the charter.
>>
>> I have posted the charter below so all can see what they signed up for,
>> if they never took the time to read it previously.
>>
>> In prior years, Michael would post the Charter at this point--he wrote
>> it, but he seems disinclined to do so, so here it is:
>>
>> *CHARTER*: *rhodes22*-list at ...
>> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=0>
>>
>> The *rhodes*-list at ...
>> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=1>
>> group will be open to discussion of all
>> subjects specifically referring to *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes*
>> sailors. The focus of this group includes, but is not limited to:
>>
>> * Encouraging the understanding and discussion of *Rhodes* sailboats or
>> *Rhodes* sailors, in the many ways people wish to define it.
>>
>> * Acting as a source of information for *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes*
>> sailors worldwide and for people planning to buy/sell/repair/learn
>> about *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors.
>>
>> * Providing a forum for the development and promotion *Rhodes* sailboats
>> or *Rhodes* sailors' culture, history, traditions and economy.
>>
>> * Any other subject that might be found at a sailor's bar or the
>> Clubhouse Bar, Including *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors' travels,
>> events, family, jokes, quotations, pets, etc.
>>
>> * The level of discussion does not have to be fit for a child, but
>> some good taste is expected.
>>
>> Binaries and Formatting: The posting of encoded binaries (e.g.
>> pictures, compressed files, etc.) to *rhodes*-list at ...
>> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=2>
>> is not
>> allowed, the list server will remove them. Please use mixed case when
>> posting (Upper and lower case letters), typing words in uppercase
>> means you are SHOUTING.
>>
>> Quoting: Place new material at the top of the post and quote what you
>> are replying to below. That makes it simple to find out what is being
>> said. You are encouraged to edit down the quoted material.
>>
>> HTML mail: Allot of the email programs (Netscape and outlook) that can
>> send their email with embedded HTML. Embedded HTML can cause some of
>> the list members to have trouble reading their mail due to "browser
>> wars", not reading their mail with a web browser and double messages
>> in digest mode. Member are encouraged to set their programs to send
>> "text" email.
>>
>> Subject Line: Please set or change the subject line to reflect the
>> true subject of the post. for example "Subject: anchors" might be
>> turned into "Subject: gastank was anchors". If a joke (or any
>> questionable material) is being posted please indicate it on the
>> subject line, for example "Subject: Monday's Humor (jokes)"
>>
>> Netiquette: Posts to the group are expected to be considerate of other
>> readers. Personal abuse, flames, and obscenities are *not*
>> appreciated; but we are sailors.......
>>
>> Anonymous email: It is expected that users will provide their name in
>> the email and will sign same. We like to know who we're talking to.
>>
>> Social Interaction/Manners: To a certain extent, the interaction is
>> about what you would expect in any informal social setting, for
>> example, a bar. It is recommended that you get to know people first
>> and introduce yourself (about the same social rules that you would use
>> to meet any new group of people). There is a high level of chitchat on
>> the list, and what you might think is insulting to a group or region
>> might only be people kidding each other after knowing them for years.
>> As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion can lead to
>> heated augments and bar fights. These might be best avoided.
>>
>> The need to participate: It is recognized that a group is only whoever
>> post to it, no more and no less. We can only talk about what people
>> post about. You earn respect on the list by postings and trying to
>> help each other, you can not demand it. Most sailing topics we have
>> talked about already, We chit chat in the mean time waiting to answer
>> questions or a new subject/story. If you want to know something,
>> please post it, the more detail the better. If someone is trying to
>> help you please answer their reasonable questions. If you can help
>> someone, again post it, Try to repay the knowledge you gained.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Jb wrote:
>>
>>> why do keep saying this is Stans list?
>>> Jb
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:53 PM
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Michael,
>>>>
>>>> Who made you the Jello Sheriff?
>>>>
>>>> This is Stan's list, not yours, and he just told us he doesn't believe
>>>>
> a
>
>>>> Jello Sheriff is required.
>>>>
>>>> Shall I tell you who I think is being a PITA?
>>>>
>>>> Do you think it will improve the list if everyone conforms to your
>>>>
> views
>
>>>> of who is using "mean sprite"? Only people who submit jokes you find
>>>> funny can remain on the list? If you don't laugh--they're out!
>>>>
>>>> Whatever happened to that rule about throwing people off the list if
>>>> they don't own a Rhodes-22?
>>>>
>>>> How about syntax rules, and spelling rules? That should be fun.
>>>>
>>>> Better drop the rule about people on ego trips.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this charter change must be submitted to the entire list as
>>>> per our charter. Does Rummy still get a vote? How about Ben? How
>>>> about people under your review?
>>>>
>>>> LOL,
>>>>
>>>> Your dear friend,
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> michael meltzer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> He is the working idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Is the problem is not so much the off subject post, as long as
>>>>> the
>>>>> are entertaining there is no real issue, funny, informative, nice..
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The problem is the people using "mean sprite" , pounding on
>>>>> people,
>>>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the
>>>>>
> view
>
>>>>> of
>>>>> the members, being a PITA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To that end.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) in the short: people using "mean sprite" , pounding on people,
>>>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the
>>>>>
> view
>
>>>>> of
>>>>> the members. Can and will be suspended buy me and john at our whim,
>>>>>
> using
>
>>>>> current tools. Willing to listen to some group feedback but really
>>>>>
> the
>
>>>>> right to suspend and remove PITA's
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) in the long term both me and john no not have the time for
>>>>>
> this.
>
>>>>> Thinking along the lines of a "trusted" group of people can numerated
>>>>>
> a
>
>>>>> poster for suspend/remove/band that a larger group of list members can
>>>>> vote
>>>>> on(the jury, maybe post #/length of time on the list weighted). Web
>>>>>
> based
>
>>>>> system. Me and john then become the "apples board. The real question
>>>>>
> in
>
>>>>> most
>>>>> cases would be are you a PITA and worth it
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) there is a question about a wiki(ben), we tried it once but
>>>>>
> let's
>
>>>>> try again, it could have broad applies
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
--
Herb Parsons
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list