[Rhodes22-list] Berkeley East?
R22RumRunner at aol.com
R22RumRunner at aol.com
Sat Feb 9 18:26:12 EST 2008
Brad,
I'm not going to get into a point for point debate with you over the
governments handling of the Katrina disaster because you obviously are wearing rose
colored glasses. Most people that I know and I'm sure many on this list would
agree with me that it was a botched job from the get go. The cost to the
American public probably will never be known. Need I remind you of the hundreds
of trucks filled with ice that never made it to the people that really needed
it. Or perhaps the thousands of mobile homes that were never used?
The entire operation was a joke. I'm not blaming the military or the local
police, but the buck stops at the presidents desk and this man isn't qualified
to handle anything. He's a joke as far as presidents go. Probably will go
down in history as being so also. It will take decades to undo the harm this
administration has done to our economy and international relations. Most
Republicans that I know are ashamed that they voted for this man and they should
be.
Rummy
In a message dated 2/9/2008 9:32:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
flybrad at gmail.com writes:
Rummy,
I'm running a bit short on time but I've got just enough time to answer your
question, YES! Bush 43 spoke with both Blanco and Nagin two days in advance
and explained that his advisers strongly suggested evacuating NOLA. NOLA
had a plan on the shelf, a plan sponsored and paid for with federal funds
and tested a year prior. It remained on the shelf. After the levees
failed, our armed forces were all over NOLA because they were poised for
just such an event. The massive movement of temporary housing to the Gulf
area immediately after Katrina was a sight to behold. I-57 and I-55 was
clogged with RVs being towed South. The National Guard was everywhere
maintaining civil order (as opposed to now - NOLA has had 21 murders since
Jan 1 and this is only Feb 9). The collection of "big yellow equipment" to
clear roads, organized and paid for by the federal government, was the
single largest collection of construction equipment I've ever witnessed or
probably ever will again. Given the size and scope of the event, I think
the feds did the best anyone could ask for under the circumstances. The
NOLA local government completely broke down, before, during, and after
Katrina. Over on the Mississippi side (where Katrina actually hit), the
state and local governments performed admirably. Here's the bottom line
Rummy - if you live on a coastal area, 6 feet below sea level, and a CAT 5
hurricane is bearing down on you, you get the hell out of town. Katrina did
NOLA a favor by convincing all sane and rational people to evacuate on their
own. The levee system was a disaster waiting to happen after 100 years of
poor engineering and local corruption. Had they failed while the city was
fully populated the death toll would have been in the tens of thousands.
I'll be happy to argue this issue to your hearts content when I have time.
You will lose. Better yet, come visit me on the coast and I'll give you a
tour. One look around is worth more than a thousand newspapers.
Brad
On Feb 9, 2008 8:09 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> Brad,
> Let me see if I understand your position. You are saying that our
> government
> did an outstanding job in their effort to help the people after Katrina?
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 2/9/2008 8:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Contrary to popular belief because of MSM spin, our armed forces were all
> over NOLA after Katrina. The National Guard had headquarters set-up on
> the
> fourth floor of the SuperDome parking garage. One of my co-workers, an
> Air
> Force reservist, personally flew the mission to move a temporary hospital
> to
> the Mississippi Gulf Coast the very next day, as soon as the weather
> cleared. Another co-worker, a Marine, evacuated his reserve units
> helicopters to Dallas and returned to NOLA immediately after the storm.
> The
> US Coast Guard flew thousands of rescue missions.The Navy had ships off
> the
> coast that delivered water via helicopter. When my company arrived on the
> MS
> coast, the National Guard kept the beach area secure for months. I say to
> any city who doesn't welcome our armed forces - fend for yourselves
> during
> the next natural disaster. Toledo, you're next!
>
> Brad
>
> --------------------
>
> Article published February 9, 2008
>
> Mayor to Marines: Leave downtown
> He says urban exercises scare people
> [image: Photo]
>
>
<javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Sit
> e=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>
> Staff Sgt. Andre Davis talks to his commanding officer as he leaves the
> Madison Building after Mayor Carty Finkbeiner requested that the Marines
> leave the downtown location.
> ( THE BLADE/JEREMY WADSWORTH )
>
>
<javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Sit
> e=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>
>
>
Zoom<javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs
> &Site=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>|
> Photo
> Reprints <http://www.toledoblade.com/printroom>
>
> By JC REINDL <jcreindl at theblade.com>
> BLADE STAFF WRITER
>
> A company of Marine Corps Reservists received a cold send-off from
> downtown
> Toledo yesterday by order of Mayor Carty Finkbeiner. The 200 members of
> Company A, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines, based in Grand Rapids, Mich.,
> planned to spend their weekend engaged in urban patrol exercises on the
> streets of downtown as well as inside the mostly vacant Madison Building,
> 607 Madison Ave. Toledo police knew days in advance about their plans for
> a
> three-day exercise. Yet somehow the memo never made it to Mayor
> Finkbeiner,
> who ordered the Marines out yesterday afternoon just minutes before their
> buses were to arrive. "The mayor asked them to leave because they
> frighten
> people," said Brian Schwartz, the mayor's spokesman. "He did not want
> them
> practicing and drilling in a highly visible area." So after a brief stop
> at
> a friendly base in Perrysburg Township, the Marines by early evening were
> back on their way home to Grand Rapids. "I wish they would have told us
> this
> four hours ago," Staff Sgt. Andre Davis said. Sergeant Davis, who
> traveled
> ahead of the five-bus convoy, stepped from his vehicle into downtown
> about
> 3:20 p.m. and was told by a city employee that the mayor wanted him and
> his
> soldiers packed up and out by 6 p.m. Members of the 1st Battalion, 24th
> Marines have trained periodically in downtown Toledo since at least 2004
> and
> most recently in May, 2006. Past exercises have involved mock gun fights,
> ambushes, and the firing of blank ammunition. The Marines' buses set a
> course for their battalion's Weapons Company headquarters in Perrysburg
> Township as soon as they heard of the mayor's decision. The Reservists'
> visit was no surprise to Toledo police, who Tuesday issued a news release
> to
> media outlets on behalf of the Marines that asked Toledoans not to be
> startled by the sight of camouflaged soldiers toting M16 rifles. Police
> officers were awaiting the Marines' arrival yesterday afternoon and had
> set
> up a roadblock at Madison Avenue and Huron Street. "There was apparently
> a
> break in communication somewhere between the mayor and the police
> department," Mr. Schwartz said. "Where that break was, we don't know
> yet."
> Maj.
> Jeffrey O'Neill, the company's commanding officer, said he was
> disappointed
> by how events played out yesterday, especially because Toledo had been a
> gracious host for Marine exercises in the past. "You can go to military
> ranges for live fire [exercises], but there's no way to duplicate the
> urban
> jungle unless you actually train inside a city," Major O'Neill said. Mr.
> Schwartz said the Marines declined Mayor Finkbeiner's alternative offer
> for
> them to practice their urban patrol tactics inside the former Jones
> Junior
> High School, 550 Walbridge Ave. Major O'Neill said he was not aware of
> such
> an offer. A pair of Marines spent the better part of yesterday setting up
> the Madison Building with generators, heaters, radios, and food to become
> the unit's overnight headquarters. After receiving the mayor's request to
> leave, they began the task of moving the equipment back into an armored
> Humvee. Lance Cpl. Brandon Bukrey-McCarty, 22, recalled taking part in
> the
> company's 2006 urban patrol exercise in downtown Toledo. He said he
> learned
> skills during that exercise that proved useful during the unit's
> deployment
> to Fallujah, Iraq, in 2006-2007. "It was extremely helpful," Corporal
> Bukrey-McCarty said. The training "got me used to looking up on rooftops,
> looking around every alley, every open door." Sergeant Davis and other
> company leaders estimated the total cost of the aborted training
> exercise,
> including travel, at roughly $10,000. Before he left downtown for
> Perrysburg
> Township, Major O'Neill said he was not sure what type of training, if
> any,
> his unit could undertake without access to downtown Toledo. "But we're
> Marines," Major O'Neill said. "We'll adapt and overcome."
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