[Rhodes22-list] Berkeley East?

Brad Haslett flybrad at gmail.com
Sat Feb 9 23:17:41 EST 2008


Rummy,

You made a wise choice not to get into a point for point debate over Katrina
with me because you will lose.  I'll take rose colored glasses (which I
don't wear) in lieu of your BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome).  I don't care
to defend 43, he's a lame duck President and history will soon be the
judge.  The initial images from NOLA should sear in citizen's minds the
futility of treating people like children and the effects of decades and
generations of doing so.  You are so very right about the true cost to the
American public never being known.  I know you were talking about the
Katrina recovery efforts, but I'm thinking more along the lines of almost 45
years of the Great Society. I've invited you to visit the MS Coast for a
tour, I'll even make the one hour trek to NOLA and drive you around (daytime
hours only).  I don't engage in debates with those suffering from BDS, but
will happily educate those with open minds about the recovery efforts,
successes and failures, and listen to those with useful alternative
solutions.  You haven't offered any and I challenge you to outline the
optimum solution to the single most devastating natural disaster in US
history. The failures of government, local, state, and federal are
numerous.  The lessons I've learned from Katrina (and I have a helluva lot
more money than the average press person or Hollywood puke invested in
Katrina) is that you personally are the one primarily responsible for
yourself and your family's well being.  If you think otherwise, perhaps you
should be living in Cuba.  They get lot's of hurricanes and everything is
taken care of by the government.

Brad

On Feb 9, 2008 5:26 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:

> Brad,
> I'm not going to get into a point for point debate with you over the
> governments handling of the Katrina disaster because you obviously are
> wearing  rose
> colored glasses. Most people that I know and I'm sure many on this list
>  would
> agree with me that it was a botched job from the get go. The cost to the
> American public probably will never be known. Need I remind you of the
> hundreds
> of trucks filled with ice that never made it to the people that really
> needed
> it. Or perhaps the thousands of mobile homes that were never used?
> The entire operation was a joke. I'm not blaming the military or the local
> police, but the buck stops at the presidents desk and this man isn't
> qualified
> to handle anything. He's a joke as far as presidents go. Probably will go
> down  in history as being so also. It will take decades to undo the harm
> this
> administration has done  to our economy and international relations. Most
> Republicans that I know are ashamed that they voted for this man and they
> should
> be.
>
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 2/9/2008 9:32:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> I'm running a bit short on time but I've got just enough  time to answer
> your
> question, YES!  Bush 43 spoke with both Blanco and  Nagin two days in
> advance
> and explained that his advisers strongly  suggested evacuating NOLA.  NOLA
> had a plan on the shelf, a plan  sponsored and paid for with federal funds
> and tested a year prior.  It  remained on the shelf.  After the levees
> failed, our armed forces were  all over NOLA because they were poised for
> just such an event.  The  massive movement of temporary housing to the
> Gulf
> area immediately after  Katrina was a sight to behold.  I-57 and I-55 was
> clogged with RVs  being towed South.  The National Guard was everywhere
> maintaining  civil order (as opposed to now - NOLA has had 21 murders
> since
> Jan 1 and  this is only Feb 9).  The collection of "big yellow equipment"
>  to
> clear roads, organized and paid for by the federal government, was  the
> single largest collection of construction equipment I've ever witnessed
>  or
> probably ever will again.  Given the size and scope of the event, I  think
> the feds did the best anyone could ask for under the  circumstances.  The
> NOLA local government completely broke down,  before, during, and after
> Katrina.  Over on the Mississippi side  (where Katrina actually hit), the
> state and local governments performed  admirably.  Here's the bottom line
> Rummy - if you live on a coastal  area, 6 feet below sea level, and a CAT
> 5
> hurricane is bearing down on you,  you get the hell out of town.  Katrina
> did
> NOLA a favor by convincing  all sane and rational people to evacuate on
> their
> own.  The levee  system was a disaster waiting to happen after 100 years
> of
> poor engineering  and local corruption.  Had they failed while the city
> was
> fully  populated the death toll would have been in the tens of thousands.
>
> I'll  be happy to argue this issue to your hearts content when I have
> time.
> You  will lose.  Better yet, come visit me on the coast and I'll give you
>  a
> tour.  One look around is worth more than a thousand  newspapers.
>
> Brad
>
> On Feb 9, 2008 8:09 AM,  <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad,
> > Let me see if I  understand your position. You are saying that our
> >   government
> > did an outstanding job in their effort to help the people  after
>  Katrina?
> >
> > Rummy
> >
> >
> > In a  message dated 2/9/2008 8:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >  flybrad at gmail.com writes:
> >
> > Contrary  to popular belief  because of MSM spin, our armed forces were
> all
> > over NOLA  after  Katrina.  The National Guard had headquarters set-up
> on
> >   the
> > fourth floor of the SuperDome parking garage.  One of  my  co-workers,
> an
> > Air
> > Force reservist, personally flew  the mission to move a  temporary
> hospital
> > to
> > the  Mississippi Gulf Coast the very next day, as soon  as the weather
> >  cleared.  Another co-worker, a Marine, evacuated his  reserve  units
> > helicopters to Dallas and returned to NOLA immediately  after  the
> storm.
> >  The
> > US Coast Guard flew thousands  of rescue missions.The  Navy had ships
> off
> > the
> > coast that  delivered water via helicopter. When my  company arrived on
> the
> >  MS
> > coast, the National Guard kept the beach area  secure for  months. I say
> to
> > any city who doesn't welcome our armed forces -   fend for yourselves
> > during
> > the next natural disaster.   Toledo, you're  next!
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >  --------------------
> >
> > Article published  February 9,  2008
> >
> > Mayor to Marines: Leave downtown
> > He says  urban  exercises scare people
> > [image:   Photo]
> >
> >
>
> <javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Sit
> >  e=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>
> >  Staff  Sgt. Andre Davis talks to his commanding officer as he leaves
>  the
> > Madison  Building after Mayor Carty Finkbeiner requested that  the
> Marines
> > leave the  downtown location.
> > ( THE  BLADE/JEREMY WADSWORTH )
> >
> >
>
> <javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Sit
> >  e=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>
> >
> >
>
> Zoom<javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs
> >  &Site=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>|
> >  Photo
> > Reprints   <http://www.toledoblade.com/printroom>
> >
> > By JC  REINDL  <jcreindl at theblade.com>
> > BLADE STAFF  WRITER
> >
> > A company of Marine  Corps Reservists received a  cold send-off from
> > downtown
> > Toledo yesterday by  order of  Mayor Carty Finkbeiner. The 200 members
> of
> > Company A, 1st   Battalion, 24th Marines, based in Grand Rapids, Mich.,
> > planned to  spend  their weekend engaged in urban patrol exercises on
> the
> >  streets of downtown  as well as inside the mostly vacant Madison
>  Building,
> > 607 Madison Ave.  Toledo police knew days in advance  about their plans
> for
> > a
> > three-day  exercise. Yet somehow  the memo never made it to Mayor
> > Finkbeiner,
> > who  ordered  the Marines out yesterday afternoon just minutes before
> their
> >  buses  were to arrive. "The mayor asked them to leave because  they
> >  frighten
> > people," said Brian Schwartz, the mayor's  spokesman. "He did not  want
> > them
> > practicing and drilling  in a highly visible area." So after a  brief
> stop
> > at
> > a  friendly base in Perrysburg Township, the Marines by early  evening
>  were
> > back on their way home to Grand Rapids. "I wish they would   have told
> us
> > this
> > four hours ago," Staff Sgt. Andre Davis  said. Sergeant  Davis, who
> > traveled
> > ahead of the five-bus  convoy, stepped from his vehicle  into downtown
> > about
> >  3:20 p.m. and was told by a city employee that the  mayor wanted him
>  and
> > his
> > soldiers packed up and out by 6 p.m. Members of   the 1st Battalion,
> 24th
> > Marines have trained periodically in  downtown  Toledo since at least
> 2004
> > and
> > most recently in  May, 2006. Past exercises  have involved mock gun
> fights,
> >  ambushes, and the firing of blank  ammunition. The Marines' buses set
>  a
> > course for their battalion's Weapons  Company headquarters in
>  Perrysburg
> > Township as soon as they heard of the  mayor's  decision. The
> Reservists'
> > visit was no surprise to Toledo  police,  who Tuesday issued a news
> release
> > to
> > media  outlets on behalf of the Marines  that asked Toledoans not to be
> >  startled by the sight of camouflaged  soldiers toting M16 rifles.
>  Police
> > officers were awaiting the Marines'  arrival yesterday  afternoon and
> had
> > set
> > up a roadblock at Madison Avenue   and Huron Street. "There was
> apparently
> > a
> > break in  communication somewhere  between the mayor and the police
> >  department," Mr. Schwartz said. "Where  that break was, we don't  know
> > yet."
> > Maj.
> > Jeffrey O'Neill, the company's   commanding officer, said he was
> > disappointed
> > by how events  played out  yesterday, especially because Toledo had been
> a
> >  gracious host for Marine  exercises in the past. "You can go to
>  military
> > ranges for live fire  [exercises], but there's no way to  duplicate the
> > urban
> > jungle unless you  actually train  inside a city," Major O'Neill said.
> Mr.
> > Schwartz said the   Marines declined Mayor Finkbeiner's alternative
> offer
> > for
> > them  to practice  their urban patrol tactics inside the former Jones
> >  Junior
> > High School, 550  Walbridge Ave. Major O'Neill said he was  not aware of
> > such
> > an offer. A pair  of Marines spent the  better part of yesterday setting
> up
> > the Madison  Building with  generators, heaters, radios, and food to
> become
> > the unit's   overnight headquarters. After receiving the mayor's request
> to
> > leave,  they  began the task of moving the equipment back into an
> armored
> >  Humvee. Lance  Cpl. Brandon Bukrey-McCarty, 22, recalled taking part
>  in
> > the
> > company's 2006  urban patrol exercise in downtown  Toledo. He said he
> > learned
> > skills during  that exercise  that proved useful during the unit's
> > deployment
> > to  Fallujah,  Iraq, in 2006-2007. "It was extremely helpful,"  Corporal
> > Bukrey-McCarty  said. The training "got me used to  looking up on
> rooftops,
> > looking around  every alley, every open  door." Sergeant Davis and other
> > company leaders  estimated the  total cost of the aborted training
> > exercise,
> > including   travel, at roughly $10,000. Before he left downtown for
> >   Perrysburg
> > Township, Major O'Neill said he was not sure what type  of  training, if
> > any,
> > his unit could undertake without  access to downtown  Toledo. "But we're
> > Marines," Major O'Neill  said. "We'll adapt and  overcome."
> >  __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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