[Rhodes22-list] Politics
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Feb 12 18:59:36 EST 2008
I agree with the latter portion, not the former. When he mis-stated my
position as "nonchalant", he made it personal. THAT was what was
"uncalled for". Sometimes the school yard bullies find that others fight
back.
Hank wrote:
> Herb,
>
> That's uncalled for. Attack the argument not the person. Leave the
> name calling for the school yard bullies.
>
> Hank
>
> On 2/12/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
>> You know Slime, with your assinine statement about "nonchelant", along
>> with its obvious educational level spelling, I'm off of this one. You're
>> an asshole. I'm not "nonchalant" about the sacrifice that's required for
>> war. I did my time, my father did his, one of my brothers did his. I
>> attend the funerals of those that paid the ultimate price when I can.
>>
>> If you're asserting that death isn't "typically accepted" when going to
>> war, you're just plain ignorant, but that's for you to figure out. For
>> you to accuse me of being "nonchalant" about it is buffonish. You're an
>> ass, and I'd tell you that to your face.
>>
>> I'm outta this one. Come back when you can argue with your brains and
>> not your butt.
>>
>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2008 4:27 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> And you somehow attribute all of this to the "current occupant"?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The economy is not the ruins you portray. Yes, we have a large debt. Do
>>>> you think it's unpayable? Maybe you can point us to a time when we were
>>>> at war and DIDN'T incur a large debt.
>>>>
>>> Yes, the debt will be payable by our grandchildren.
>>>
>>>
>>>> No one is afraid to "utter the R word", they haven't needed to. It
>>>> hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>> Yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>> All wars lose lives, all wars cost money. That damage is known, and
>>>> typically accepted, as part of war.
>>>>
>>> You asked "what damage" and now at least you agree there has been some.
>>> Sorry you see it as "typically accepted." How very nonchelant. If the war
>>> in Iraq were necessary, I'd try to keep a stiff upper lip about the loses
>>> too but it's not and I don't.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Civil liberties are also almost always temporarily "lost" during time of
>>>> war. This one is no different. Your assertion that the "government no
>>>> longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop" is pure hyperbole. They don't need
>>>> warrants to eaves drop on foreigners. If the conversations are with
>>>> Americans, that's part of the war. Please, if you want to have a
>>>> rational discussion, don't just make things up as you go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Warrentless eavesdropping is no hyperbole, Herb.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have no issue with you being a Bush-basher. As a matter of fact, I'm
>>>> glad you finally identified your hyperbole for what it is. That was my
>>>> point all along.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> My being a Bush-basher is no secret nor is it hyperbole. You never
>>> answered my most basic question: What has he done for you or me lately?
>>>
>>> Slim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the decline and damage is pretty obvious. Shall we start with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> economy? The 10 trillion dollar debt? The "R" word that everybody is
>>>>> afraid to utter? Do you not see how the war in Iraq has done damage to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> us
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> in lives lost, money lost and yes, our stature in the world? Congress
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> is to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> blame as well. How about our loss of civil rights? The government no
>>>>> longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop. What about the "signing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> statements"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Bush has used in every bill he signed thus making a mockery of the whole
>>>>> process? He seems to think that "executive privilege" makes him and his
>>>>> cabinet above the law. I'm sure you remember the Valery Plame issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> How
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> about his easing the restrictions on how much mercury production plants
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> allowed to spit out?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have any facts that show we're not in decline or that there has
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> been
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> no damage? Please show me something I can be happy about. If you take
>>>>> issue with me for being a Bush-basher you're going to have to show me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> why I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> shouldn't be one. What has he done for me or you lately? I guess now
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> he
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wants to send me a few hundred bucks (borrowed from the Chinese) so I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> can go
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> out and buy something made in China. Does that make any sense?
>>>>>
>>>>> Slim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:43 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to convince you to "trust this administration". I have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> no
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> reason for you to trust this administration. If they were running for
>>>>>> something, and I was trying to get them elected, I might have need to
>>>>>> try to convince you. They're not, I'm not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it stands, they apparently didn't convince you to trust them, but
>>>>>> they DID convince those that voted for them, and thus got the job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, if I may remind you what started this little bit of silliness
>>>>>> was the statement you made:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Brad, I don't know how much farther our country can decline before you
>>>>>> realize how much damage has been done by the current occupant."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though you directed the question to Brad, I assumed it was open to all,
>>>>>> so I simply asked what damage. You haven't convinced ME (or Brad, I
>>>>>> suspect). You and Rummy both have put up a lot of nonsense from others,
>>>>>> but I've yet to see a thought out description from either of you
>>>>>> PERSONALLY of the "damage" you've talked about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect it's not going to come.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect there's a reason too...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad, not sure what you're taliking about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Herb, since you're so into the facts, why don't you start with some.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Give
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> me the facts on why I or any of us should trust this administration.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:04 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Out the door and running late! What were we talking about? Did
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Grant
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> surprised at Shiloh in 62' and should he have thrown his forces into
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Hornets Nest" during the afternoon? Oh, we're talking now? OK,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> what
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the Messiah's vision for Iraq in 2010? Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>>>>> Don't
>>>>>>>> give me hope, I got that. Change? No shit, Sherlock! Things damn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> change. Give me the plan! Any plan will do as long as it doesn't use
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> word "hope" or "change" without defining what the meaning of change
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> "is".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 1:45 PM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 1:00 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The question as to whether or not the Bush administration was a
>>>>>>>>>> "catastrophe" is definitely open to debate. The person writing is
>>>>>>>>>> expressing an opinion, not fact.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you're saying this has NOT been a catastrphe?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The question of wether or not the Iraq war was a "tragedy" that was
>>>>>>>>>> caused by the Bush administration is open to debate, again
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> expressing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> opinion, not fact. (The FACT is that the war was authorized by
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> congress,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and the result of many violations of a cease-fire agreement, and
>>>>>>>>>> agreement that was structured during the previous Bush
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> admninistration,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and violated numerous times during the Clinton administration, but
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hey,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> let's not let facts get in the way of a good Bush-bashing).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you're saying the war in Iraq is NOT a tragedy ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The "shame" of Guantanamo is that so many leftists have made it out
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> be something worse than it its.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you're saying the situation in Guantanamo is OK?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The "shame" of Abu Gharib was NOT the result of "the Bush
>>>>>>>>>> administration", that's hyperbole.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wasn't Donald Rumsfeld part of the Bush administration? What ever
>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>> to "the buck stops here?"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>>>>>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>>>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Herb Parsons
>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
--
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
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