[Rhodes22-list] Politics

R22RumRunner at aol.com R22RumRunner at aol.com
Tue Feb 12 19:09:55 EST 2008


Herb,
We can have these discussions as long as we don't lower ourselves to name  
calling. Clean up your act or simply ignore the emails that offend you. This IS  
a sailing list after all, sometimes.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 2/12/2008 6:50:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
hparsons at parsonsys.com writes:

You know  Slime, with your assinine statement about "nonchelant", along 
with its  obvious educational level spelling, I'm off of this one. You're 
an  asshole. I'm not "nonchalant" about the sacrifice that's required for 
war.  I did my time, my father did his, one of my brothers did his. I 
attend the  funerals of those that paid the ultimate price when I can.

If you're  asserting that death isn't "typically accepted" when going to 
war, you're  just plain ignorant, but that's for you to figure out. For 
you to accuse  me of being "nonchalant" about it is buffonish. You're an 
ass, and I'd  tell you that to your face.

I'm outta this one. Come back when you can  argue with your brains and 
not your butt.

Steven Alm wrote:
>  On Feb 12, 2008 4:27 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>  wrote:
>
>> And you somehow attribute all of this to the  "current occupant"?
>
>
>  Yes.
>
>>
>> The economy is not the ruins you portray.  Yes, we have a large debt. Do
>> you think it's unpayable? Maybe you  can point us to a time when we were
>> at war and DIDN'T incur a  large debt.
>
>
> Yes, the debt will be payable by our  grandchildren.
>
>>
>> No one is afraid to "utter the  R word", they haven't needed to. It
>> hasn't  happened.
>
>
> Yet.
>
>>
>> All  wars lose lives, all wars cost money. That damage is known, and
>>  typically accepted, as part of war.
>
>
> You asked "what  damage" and now at least you agree there has been some.
> Sorry you see  it as "typically accepted."  How very nonchelant. If the war
> in  Iraq were necessary, I'd try to keep a stiff upper lip about the loses
>  too but it's not and I don't.
>
>   
>> Civil  liberties are also almost always temporarily "lost" during time of
>>  war. This one is no different. Your assertion that the "government  no
>> longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop" is pure hyperbole. They  don't need
>> warrants to eaves drop on foreigners. If the  conversations are with
>> Americans, that's part of the war. Please,  if you want to have a
>> rational discussion, don't just make things  up as you go.
>>     
>
>
>  Warrentless eavesdropping is no hyperbole, Herb.
>
>    
>> I have no issue with you being a Bush-basher. As a matter of  fact, I'm
>> glad you finally identified your hyperbole for what it  is. That was my
>> point all along.
>>      
>
>
>  My being a Bush-basher is no secret nor is it  hyperbole.  You never
> answered my most basic question:  What  has he done for you or me lately?
>
>  Slim
>
>   
>>
>> Steven Alm  wrote:
>>     
>>>  Herb,
>>>
>>> I think the decline and damage is pretty  obvious.  Shall we start with
>>>        
>> the
>>     
>>>  economy?  The 10 trillion dollar debt?  The "R" word that everybody  is
>>> afraid to utter?  Do you not see how the war in Iraq  has done damage to
>>>       
>>  us
>>     
>>> in lives lost, money lost  and yes, our stature in the world?  Congress
>>>     
>> is to
>>      
>>> blame as well.  How about our loss of civil  rights?  The government no
>>> longer needs a warrant to  eavesdrop.  What about the "signing
>>>     
>> statements"
>>      
>>> Bush has used in every bill he signed thus making a mockery  of the whole
>>> process?  He seems to think that "executive  privilege" makes him and his
>>> cabinet above the law.  I'm  sure you remember the Valery Plame issue.
>>>     
>>  How
>>      
>>> about his easing the restrictions on how much mercury  production plants
>>>       
>>  are
>>     
>>> allowed to spit  out?
>>>
>>> Do you have any facts that show we're not  in decline or that there has
>>>        
>> been
>>     
>>> no  damage?  Please show me something I can be happy about.  If you  take
>>> issue with me for being a Bush-basher you're going to  have to show me
>>>       
>> why  I
>>     
>>> shouldn't be one.  What  has he done for me or you lately?  I guess now
>>>   
>> he
>>      
>>> wants to send me a few hundred bucks (borrowed from the  Chinese) so I
>>>       
>> can  go
>>     
>>> out and buy something made  in China.  Does that make any sense?
>>>
>>>  Slim
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:43 PM, Herb Parsons  <hparsons at parsonsys.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>>  Slim,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not trying to convince you  to "trust this administration". I have
>>>>       
>> no
>>      
>>>> reason for you to trust this administration. If they were  running for
>>>> something, and I was trying to get them  elected, I might have need to
>>>> try to convince you. They're  not, I'm not.
>>>>
>>>> As it stands, they  apparently didn't convince you to trust them, but
>>>> they DID  convince those that voted for them, and thus got the  job.
>>>>
>>>> However, if I may remind you what  started this little bit of silliness
>>>> was the statement you  made:
>>>>
>>>> "Brad, I don't know how much  farther our country can decline before you
>>>> realize how  much damage has been done by the current  occupant."
>>>>
>>>> Though you directed the  question to Brad, I assumed it was open to all,
>>>> so I  simply asked what damage. You haven't convinced ME (or Brad,  I
>>>> suspect). You and Rummy both have put up a lot of  nonsense from others,
>>>> but I've yet to see a thought out  description from either of you
>>>> PERSONALLY of the "damage"  you've talked about.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect it's  not going to come.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect there's a  reason too...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>> Brad, not sure what you're taliking  about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb, since you're so  into the facts, why don't you start with  some.
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>   Give
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> me the facts on why I or any of us should trust this  administration.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Slim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:04 PM,  Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>>  Slim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out the door and  running late!  What were we talking about?   Did
>>>>>>              
>> Grant
>>     
>>>>  get
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>>> surprised at Shiloh in 62' and should he have  thrown his forces  into
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>  the
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>>> "Hornets Nest" during the afternoon?  Oh,  we're talking now?  OK,
>>>>>>       
>> what
>>      
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>>> the Messiah's vision for Iraq  in 2010?  Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>>>  Don't
>>>>>> give me hope, I got that.   Change?  No shit, Sherlock!  Things  damn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>  sure
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>>> change.  Give me the plan! Any plan will do  as long as it doesn't  use
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>  the
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>>> word "hope" or "change" without defining what the  meaning of  change
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>  "is".
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>>>  Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008  1:45 PM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>> On  Feb 12, 2008 1:00 PM, Herb Parsons  <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>>>>     
>> wrote:
>>    
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>>  The question as to whether or not the Bush administration was  a
>>>>>>>> "catastrophe" is definitely open to  debate. The person writing is
>>>>>>>> expressing  an opinion, not  fact.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>> So you're saying this has NOT been a  catastrphe?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>> The question of wether or not the Iraq  war was a "tragedy" that was
>>>>>>>> caused by the  Bush administration is open to debate,  again
>>>>>>>>           
>> expressing
>>   
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>  an
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>  opinion, not fact. (The FACT is that the war was authorized  by
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>  congress,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>  and the result of many violations of a cease-fire agreement,  and
>>>>>>>> agreement that was structured during  the previous  Bush
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>  admninistration,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>  and violated numerous times during the Clinton administration,  but
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>  hey,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>  let's not let facts get in the way of a good  Bush-bashing).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>> So you're saying the war in Iraq is NOT a  tragedy  ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>> The "shame" of Guantanamo is that so many  leftists have made it  out
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   
>>>>  to
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>>>>> be something worse than it  its.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>> So you're saying the situation in Guantanamo  is  OK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>> The "shame" of Abu Gharib was NOT the  result of "the Bush
>>>>>>>> administration",  that's  hyperbole.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>> Wasn't Donald Rumsfeld part of the Bush  administration?  What ever
>>>>>>>  happened
>>>>>>> to "the buck stops  here?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>>  Slim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>  Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>>>>>>  Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use  Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>> --
>>>>  Herb Parsons
>>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>>>> S/V  Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>>>
>>>>  __________________________________________________
>>>> Use  Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>  __________________________________________________
>>> Use  Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> Herb Parsons
>> S/V  O'Jure - O'Day 25
>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado  35
>>
>>  __________________________________________________
>> Use  Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>     
>  __________________________________________________
> Use  Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?  www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>   

-- 
Herb  Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado  35

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