[Rhodes22-list] Politics
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Feb 12 19:48:26 EST 2008
And I'll repeat, the "lowering" came when Slim made the assertion that I
was "nonchalant" about the deaths in Iraq. Go back, reread the threads.
There was nothing personal from me until that point.
Funny that those of you that were offended by MY response see nothing
wrong with the false accusation about my attitude about the deaths of
our soldiers (some of whom have been family and friends).
Truth be told, I'd much rather be called an asshole (I am from time to
time, and not afraid to admit it). I've never been non-chalant about the
deaths of our soldiers.
R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> Herb,
> We can have these discussions as long as we don't lower ourselves to name
> calling. Clean up your act or simply ignore the emails that offend you. This IS
> a sailing list after all, sometimes.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 2/12/2008 6:50:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> hparsons at parsonsys.com writes:
>
> You know Slime, with your assinine statement about "nonchelant", along
> with its obvious educational level spelling, I'm off of this one. You're
> an asshole. I'm not "nonchalant" about the sacrifice that's required for
> war. I did my time, my father did his, one of my brothers did his. I
> attend the funerals of those that paid the ultimate price when I can.
>
> If you're asserting that death isn't "typically accepted" when going to
> war, you're just plain ignorant, but that's for you to figure out. For
> you to accuse me of being "nonchalant" about it is buffonish. You're an
> ass, and I'd tell you that to your face.
>
> I'm outta this one. Come back when you can argue with your brains and
> not your butt.
>
> Steven Alm wrote:
>
>> On Feb 12, 2008 4:27 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> And you somehow attribute all of this to the "current occupant"?
>>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>> The economy is not the ruins you portray. Yes, we have a large debt. Do
>>> you think it's unpayable? Maybe you can point us to a time when we were
>>> at war and DIDN'T incur a large debt.
>>>
>> Yes, the debt will be payable by our grandchildren.
>>
>>
>>> No one is afraid to "utter the R word", they haven't needed to. It
>>> hasn't happened.
>>>
>> Yet.
>>
>>
>>> All wars lose lives, all wars cost money. That damage is known, and
>>> typically accepted, as part of war.
>>>
>> You asked "what damage" and now at least you agree there has been some.
>> Sorry you see it as "typically accepted." How very nonchelant. If the war
>> in Iraq were necessary, I'd try to keep a stiff upper lip about the loses
>> too but it's not and I don't.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Civil liberties are also almost always temporarily "lost" during time of
>>> war. This one is no different. Your assertion that the "government no
>>> longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop" is pure hyperbole. They don't need
>>> warrants to eaves drop on foreigners. If the conversations are with
>>> Americans, that's part of the war. Please, if you want to have a
>>> rational discussion, don't just make things up as you go.
>>>
>>>
>> Warrentless eavesdropping is no hyperbole, Herb.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have no issue with you being a Bush-basher. As a matter of fact, I'm
>>> glad you finally identified your hyperbole for what it is. That was my
>>> point all along.
>>>
>>>
>> My being a Bush-basher is no secret nor is it hyperbole. You never
>> answered my most basic question: What has he done for you or me lately?
>>
>> Slim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Herb,
>>>>
>>>> I think the decline and damage is pretty obvious. Shall we start with
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> economy? The 10 trillion dollar debt? The "R" word that everybody is
>>>> afraid to utter? Do you not see how the war in Iraq has done damage to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> us
>>>
>>>
>>>> in lives lost, money lost and yes, our stature in the world? Congress
>>>>
>>>>
>>> is to
>>>
>>>
>>>> blame as well. How about our loss of civil rights? The government no
>>>> longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop. What about the "signing
>>>>
>>>>
>>> statements"
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bush has used in every bill he signed thus making a mockery of the whole
>>>> process? He seems to think that "executive privilege" makes him and his
>>>> cabinet above the law. I'm sure you remember the Valery Plame issue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> How
>>>
>>>
>>>> about his easing the restrictions on how much mercury production plants
>>>>
>>>>
>>> are
>>>
>>>
>>>> allowed to spit out?
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any facts that show we're not in decline or that there has
>>>>
>>>>
>>> been
>>>
>>>
>>>> no damage? Please show me something I can be happy about. If you take
>>>> issue with me for being a Bush-basher you're going to have to show me
>>>>
>>>>
>>> why I
>>>
>>>
>>>> shouldn't be one. What has he done for me or you lately? I guess now
>>>>
>>>>
>>> he
>>>
>>>
>>>> wants to send me a few hundred bucks (borrowed from the Chinese) so I
>>>>
>>>>
>>> can go
>>>
>>>
>>>> out and buy something made in China. Does that make any sense?
>>>>
>>>> Slim
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:43 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to convince you to "trust this administration". I have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> no
>>>
>>>
>>>>> reason for you to trust this administration. If they were running for
>>>>> something, and I was trying to get them elected, I might have need to
>>>>> try to convince you. They're not, I'm not.
>>>>>
>>>>> As it stands, they apparently didn't convince you to trust them, but
>>>>> they DID convince those that voted for them, and thus got the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, if I may remind you what started this little bit of silliness
>>>>> was the statement you made:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brad, I don't know how much farther our country can decline before you
>>>>> realize how much damage has been done by the current occupant."
>>>>>
>>>>> Though you directed the question to Brad, I assumed it was open to all,
>>>>> so I simply asked what damage. You haven't convinced ME (or Brad, I
>>>>> suspect). You and Rummy both have put up a lot of nonsense from others,
>>>>> but I've yet to see a thought out description from either of you
>>>>> PERSONALLY of the "damage" you've talked about.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect it's not going to come.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect there's a reason too...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad, not sure what you're taliking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herb, since you're so into the facts, why don't you start with some.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Give
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> me the facts on why I or any of us should trust this administration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:04 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out the door and running late! What were we talking about? Did
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> Grant
>>>
>>>
>>>>> get
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> surprised at Shiloh in 62' and should he have thrown his forces into
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Hornets Nest" during the afternoon? Oh, we're talking now? OK,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> what
>>>
>>>
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the Messiah's vision for Iraq in 2010? Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>>>> Don't
>>>>>>> give me hope, I got that. Change? No shit, Sherlock! Things damn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> sure
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> change. Give me the plan! Any plan will do as long as it doesn't use
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> word "hope" or "change" without defining what the meaning of change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> "is".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 1:45 PM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 1:00 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The question as to whether or not the Bush administration was a
>>>>>>>>> "catastrophe" is definitely open to debate. The person writing is
>>>>>>>>> expressing an opinion, not fact.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you're saying this has NOT been a catastrphe?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The question of wether or not the Iraq war was a "tragedy" that was
>>>>>>>>> caused by the Bush administration is open to debate, again
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>> expressing
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> opinion, not fact. (The FACT is that the war was authorized by
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> congress,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and the result of many violations of a cease-fire agreement, and
>>>>>>>>> agreement that was structured during the previous Bush
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> admninistration,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and violated numerous times during the Clinton administration, but
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hey,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> let's not let facts get in the way of a good Bush-bashing).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you're saying the war in Iraq is NOT a tragedy ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The "shame" of Guantanamo is that so many leftists have made it out
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> be something worse than it its.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you're saying the situation in Guantanamo is OK?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The "shame" of Abu Gharib was NOT the result of "the Bush
>>>>>>>>> administration", that's hyperbole.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wasn't Donald Rumsfeld part of the Bush administration? What ever
>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>> to "the buck stops here?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>>>>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Herb Parsons
>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
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