[Rhodes22-list] Information gathering

elle watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 23 08:35:54 EDT 2008


Rummy,

Communities change and grow in directions influenced by their deinzens.

The tone of 'da list' has become quite more abrasive and bullying than it was before I joined...& i lurked for quite a long time before my first posting.

Yahoo has an integrated address book w/in its mail program...I occasionally go thru it & delete duplicate addresses...I did this address the other day....and was really surprised at the number of names that were frequent posters back when I was lurking but haven't been heard of for quite a while.

If this list doesn't grow, it will collapse under the weight of the bully rhetoric. It is my opinion that the tone has changed BECAUSE there is very little new input...the newbies don't  stick around for civility to take over. They have no idea that it is any different than the snapshot they see.

There will be no fresh ideas w/o fresh faces.....and once you guys finish beating up on each other...what will be left?  Wait for another election to start over again? That'll get old for you guys, too.

The list does sit dormant now for a day or so...often after an acrimonious beating......

The founding fellas of 'da list' are 'way past the need for sailing advice other than the "Hey, wouldja lookit this" type posting.....it's the newbies that keep you rethinking technique and methods w/their questions....

So either 'da list' will become  a closed community of a few who beat up on each other for sport, or it will be an 'interesting' place to hang around for info on sailing & whatever floats by.

Whatever....

elle


We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


--- On Wed, 7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:

> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:59 AM
> Arthur,
> As has been stated previously, this list was started
> because we wanted to  be 
> able to post pictures and not have to worry about a sailnet
> moderator  
> stepping in to control our conversations. With all due
> respect, you are very new  to 
> all of us and I don't believe that you are in a
> position to decide where the  
> list should go or how it should be run. This is a
> community. We have a 
> charter  and when someone steps over the bounds of the
> charter, we police ourselves. 
> Yes,  I am concerned that a poll from 268 non participating
> people would lead 
> us in a  direction the original founders and participating
> members of this 
> list don't  want it to go in. We have lost a few people
> over the years, but the 
> list is  still strong with a large knowledge base and we
> will continue this 
> way for many  years. Read the charter. Understand it and if
> you think someone 
> has stepped over  the line, call them on it, but leave this
> site the way it is.
>  
> Rummy said that.
>  
>  
> In a message dated 7/22/2008 9:54:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,  
> czerwonky at earthlink.net writes:
> 
> John,
> 
> I have no objection to having a poll.  Rummy, are you 
> worried what results 
> will show?  Stan has sent potential skippers to the  list
> as a promotional 
> witness, I have some doubts about whether it helps his 
> efforts.  I think the 
> prime objective for those subscribing to the list  is
> building their sailing 
> knowledge and cohesion in the fleet.  The often  exagerated
> and pointless emotion 
> and language may provide a momentary email  thrill, but
> face it folks, there 
> are better ways to get the points  across.  
> 
> A poll could have distorted for sure, but not only  because
> of the votes of 
> new skippers who are sick of political posturing, but  due
> to the loss over 
> time of excellent former members who were sick of the 
> bickering and were labeled 
> as internet police and the like, just for  expressing their
> feelings 
> honestly.  Numerous newbies and veterans have  been treated
> in this way.
> 
> It has been suggested that the Rhodes 22  sailing advocates
> post their 
> messages on Sailnet or some other forum instead  of this
> one.  I suggest that 
> Rhodes22.org is by definition a Rhodes22  sailing site, and
> that if someone really 
> wants to post political swill, they  should have no right
> to soil the Rhodes22 
> skipper list or the Rhodes 22  name.  Maybe a more
> appropriate site should be 
> their destination when  they lose control.  
> 
> Nothing wrong with meaningful political  insights, but in
> the tone and manner 
> I have seen, it is just way  overdone.
> 
> I refer back to sometimes comments about an unnamed member
> of  our fleet - 
> those who cannot get their point across in a civil way are 
> demonstrating their 
> 'mounting problems' to everyone now or later who
> reads  about our Rhodes 22 
> boat and fleet.  Some legacy we help provide to  Stan.  As
> he has gotten into 
> some of the dialogue, I have not seen a need  by him to be
> foul in doing so.  
> Maybe we could follow his  example...
> 
> Art
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From:  R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >Sent: Jul 22, 2008 7:04 PM
> >To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information  gathering
> >
> >John,
> >Taking a poll is a lousy idea. You are  giving people
> that have never and  
> >probably will never add  anything to the list decide
> what direction we go 
> in. I  
> >think if  anyone wanted to, they could certainly
> express their opinions 
> freely  
> >on  da list. I think the majority of the people like it
> just  fine. Everyone 
> >knows  how to use the delete button. There are  times
> when I don't have the 
> time 
> >to read  all posts, but will  sift through the ones
> that are sailing related.
> > 
> >Rummy
> >  
> > 
> >In a message dated 7/22/2008 4:58:17 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight  Time,  
> >jlock at relevantarts.com writes:
> >
> >At  04:25  PM 7/22/2008 -0400, Michael D. Weisner
> wrote:
> >>I wonder  if we can try to  solve the problem a bit
> differently than  
> chasing
> >>otherwise good folks  off the list.  Maybe John 
> can set up a third
> >>distribution mode in  addition to 
> "Non-digested" and "Digested",
> something
> >>called "Sailing   limited" which would
> only receive items of sailing 
> interest.
> >>Maybe  we  could use a prefixed subject line
> modifier such as "Sailing:"  to
> >>direct  these posts to the limited list as well as
> the  general list.
> >>Forgetting  to add the subject line modifier  will
> only affect those who do
> >>not wish  to be on "da list",  not the
> rest of us.  John, is such a   thing
> >>doable?
> >
> >Doable, but probably not  practical.  Besides  the
> programing involved, 
> >it depends on  the poster remembering to place the 
> magic word in the 
> >subject  line.  We all know how well THAT  works!
> >
> >Seriously...  before we can discuss making any changes,
> we need  more  
> >information.  Right now we have no sense of what the 
> majority  
> >wants.  We've heard from the usual suspects on 
> what they want, but  
> >there are 268 list members; most of whom  have not
> stated a  preference.
> >
> >We might assume that  everything is hunky-dory, since
> we  don't have 
> >268  complaints.  But that may be because no good 
> alternatives have  
> >been proposed.
> >
> >I'd like to suggest a simple   poll.  I can whip
> one up in a few 
> >minutes and post the URL to  the  list.  We'll run
> it for a couple 
> >weeks and see what  kind of stats  come out.  Might be
> interesting to 
> >have some  facts to kick around...  yes?
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >John  Lock
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >s/v Pandion -  '79 Rhodes  22
> >Lake Sinclair,   GA
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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