[Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 23 11:21:16 EDT 2008
OK, Mr. Rummmmmmmy ;^), I did just that..just in case i was forgetting or unremembering something...
Some (what I thought) were more pertinent points...and I quote:
1. * The level of discussion does not have to be fit for a child, but
some good taste is expected. (Hmmmm..kinda lost that for a while....)
2. Netiquette: Posts to the group are expected to be considerate of other
readers. Personal abuse, flames, and obscenities are *not*
appreciated; but we are sailors....... (yea...but we're not down at the level of powerboaters. Not a slur..just an observation based on working for three years at a very busy marina)
3. There is a high level of chitchat on the list, and what you might think is insulting to a group or region might only be people kidding each other after knowing them for years. (if we can't tell kidding from nasty & insult then it must be nasty & insult.)
3. As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion can lead to heated augments and bar fights. These might be best avoided.
Again, Rummy, I know this is your sandbox & i'm just a guest....I'm not trying to run things or be a schoolmarm trying to stifle free speech...more like a mom who feels bad whenher kids re fighting 7 can't get'em to stop.
Again, what do 'nasty , overbearing and crude' add to any discussiion? We know you're guys...;^)
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Wed, 7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 10:50 AM
> Elle,
> You are correct, communities change. People come and people
> go, but this
> list has a charter. It's kinda like the constitution.
> It's what we live by on da
> list. If you find someone's actions or posts offensive,
> do something about
> it. Contact them directly, off the list and deal with the
> problem, don't try to
> fix what ain't broken. Reread the charter so that you
> understand what it
> says and what was meant when it was adopted many, many
> years ago. The founding
> fathers were brilliant people.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:36:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> Communities change and grow in directions influenced by
> their deinzens.
>
> The tone of 'da list' has become quite more
> abrasive and bullying than it
> was before I joined...& i lurked for quite a long time
> before my first posting.
>
> Yahoo has an integrated address book w/in its mail
> program...I occasionally
> go thru it & delete duplicate addresses...I did this
> address the other
> day....and was really surprised at the number of names
> that were frequent posters
> back when I was lurking but haven't been heard of for
> quite a while.
>
> If this list doesn't grow, it will collapse under the
> weight of the bully
> rhetoric. It is my opinion that the tone has changed
> BECAUSE there is very
> little new input...the newbies don't stick around for
> civility to take over.
> They have no idea that it is any different than the
> snapshot they see.
>
> There will be no fresh ideas w/o fresh faces.....and once
> you guys finish
> beating up on each other...what will be left? Wait for
> another election to
> start over again? That'll get old for you guys, too.
>
> The list does sit dormant now for a day or so...often
> after an acrimonious
> beating......
>
> The founding fellas of 'da list' are 'way past
> the need for sailing advice
> other than the "Hey, wouldja lookit this" type
> posting.....it's the newbies
> that keep you rethinking technique and methods w/their
> questions....
>
> So either 'da list' will become a closed
> community of a few who beat up on
> each other for sport, or it will be an
> 'interesting' place to hang around for
> info on sailing & whatever floats by.
>
> Whatever....
>
> elle
>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can
> adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> (Lady in Red)
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com
> <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:59 AM
> > Arthur,
> > As has been stated previously, this list was started
> > because we wanted to be
> > able to post pictures and not have to worry about a
> sailnet
> > moderator
> > stepping in to control our conversations. With all
> due
> > respect, you are very new to
> > all of us and I don't believe that you are in a
> > position to decide where the
> > list should go or how it should be run. This is a
> > community. We have a
> > charter and when someone steps over the bounds of
> the
> > charter, we police ourselves.
> > Yes, I am concerned that a poll from 268 non
> participating
> > people would lead
> > us in a direction the original founders and
> participating
> > members of this
> > list don't want it to go in. We have lost a few
> people
> > over the years, but the
> > list is still strong with a large knowledge base and
> we
> > will continue this
> > way for many years. Read the charter. Understand it
> and if
> > you think someone
> > has stepped over the line, call them on it, but
> leave this
> > site the way it is.
> >
> > Rummy said that.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/22/2008 9:54:41 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight
> > Time,
> > czerwonky at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > John,
> >
> > I have no objection to having a poll. Rummy, are you
>
> > worried what results
> > will show? Stan has sent potential skippers to the
> list
> > as a promotional
> > witness, I have some doubts about whether it helps
> his
> > efforts. I think the
> > prime objective for those subscribing to the list is
> > building their sailing
> > knowledge and cohesion in the fleet. The often
> exagerated
> > and pointless emotion
> > and language may provide a momentary email thrill,
> but
> > face it folks, there
> > are better ways to get the points across.
> >
> > A poll could have distorted for sure, but not only
> because
> > of the votes of
> > new skippers who are sick of political posturing, but
> due
> > to the loss over
> > time of excellent former members who were sick of the
>
> > bickering and were labeled
> > as internet police and the like, just for expressing
> their
> > feelings
> > honestly. Numerous newbies and veterans have been
> treated
> > in this way.
> >
> > It has been suggested that the Rhodes 22 sailing
> advocates
> > post their
> > messages on Sailnet or some other forum instead of
> this
> > one. I suggest that
> > Rhodes22.org is by definition a Rhodes22 sailing
> site, and
> > that if someone really
> > wants to post political swill, they should have no
> right
> > to soil the Rhodes22
> > skipper list or the Rhodes 22 name. Maybe a more
> > appropriate site should be
> > their destination when they lose control.
> >
> > Nothing wrong with meaningful political insights,
> but in
> > the tone and manner
> > I have seen, it is just way overdone.
> >
> > I refer back to sometimes comments about an unnamed
> member
> > of our fleet -
> > those who cannot get their point across in a civil way
> are
> > demonstrating their
> > 'mounting problems' to everyone now or later
> who
> > reads about our Rhodes 22
> > boat and fleet. Some legacy we help provide to
> Stan. As
> > he has gotten into
> > some of the dialogue, I have not seen a need by him
> to be
> > foul in doing so.
> > Maybe we could follow his example...
> >
> > Art
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> > >Sent: Jul 22, 2008 7:04 PM
> > >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information
> gathering
> > >
> > >John,
> > >Taking a poll is a lousy idea. You are giving
> people
> > that have never and
> > >probably will never add anything to the list
> decide
> > what direction we go
> > in. I
> > >think if anyone wanted to, they could certainly
> > express their opinions
> > freely
> > >on da list. I think the majority of the people
> like it
> > just fine. Everyone
> > >knows how to use the delete button. There are
> times
> > when I don't have the
> > time
> > >to read all posts, but will sift through the
> ones
> > that are sailing related.
> > >
> > >Rummy
> > >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 7/22/2008 4:58:17 P.M. Eastern
> > Daylight Time,
> > >jlock at relevantarts.com writes:
> > >
> > >At 04:25 PM 7/22/2008 -0400, Michael D. Weisner
> > wrote:
> > >>I wonder if we can try to solve the problem
> a bit
> > differently than
> > chasing
> > >>otherwise good folks off the list. Maybe
> John
> > can set up a third
> > >>distribution mode in addition to
> > "Non-digested" and "Digested",
> > something
> > >>called "Sailing limited" which
> would
> > only receive items of sailing
> > interest.
> > >>Maybe we could use a prefixed subject line
> > modifier such as "Sailing:" to
> > >>direct these posts to the limited list as
> well as
> > the general list.
> > >>Forgetting to add the subject line modifier
> will
> > only affect those who do
> > >>not wish to be on "da list", not
> the
> > rest of us. John, is such a thing
> > >>doable?
> > >
> > >Doable, but probably not practical. Besides
> the
> > programing involved,
> > >it depends on the poster remembering to place the
>
> > magic word in the
> > >subject line. We all know how well THAT works!
> > >
> > >Seriously... before we can discuss making any
> changes,
> > we need more
> > >information. Right now we have no sense of what
> the
> > majority
> > >wants. We've heard from the usual suspects
> on
> > what they want, but
> > >there are 268 list members; most of whom have
> not
> > stated a preference.
> > >
> > >We might assume that everything is hunky-dory,
> since
> > we don't have
> > >268 complaints. But that may be because no good
>
> > alternatives have
> > >been proposed.
> > >
> > >I'd like to suggest a simple poll. I can
> whip
> > one up in a few
> > >minutes and post the URL to the list.
> We'll run
> > it for a couple
> > >weeks and see what kind of stats come out.
> Might be
> > interesting to
> > >have some facts to kick around... yes?
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
> > >John Lock
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > >Lake Sinclair, GA
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> the
> > mailing list go to
> > >http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
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