[Rhodes22-list] motors

elle watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Thu May 29 22:19:30 EDT 2008


I replaced the stock prop on my Tohatsu 9.8 with the
4-blade high-thrust prop for better maneuverability. I
lost a bit of speed, and the boat tends to squat if I
push it close to full throttle (really no reason to do
so...)...but the prop bites quickly and affords quick
response when maneuvering to my dock. Worth the
trade-off for me.

elle


--- Peter Thorn <pthorn at nc.rr.com> wrote:

>
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|215570|220614|292251|316465&id=9
> 26156&cartId=869059
> 
> I have a 2005 Tohatsu 9.8 4-stroke.  I bought the
> stripped model (no elec
> start, no alternator) because at the time I did not
> have a slip and wanted
> the lightest possible weight for trailer sailing. 
> The motor weighs 83
> pounds and most often starts on the first pull. 
> They were out-of-stock on
> the 8 hp, or I would have bought one of those.  I
> understand the 8 and 9.8
> are alike, with minor changes.
> 
> The 6.5 pitch three blade Tohatsu prop and can move
> s/v Raven to 6.0 hull
> speed at 1/4 throttle.  She will push past 7 knots
> at about 3/4 throttle,
> but it's loud and mucho vibration.  The best setting
> is about 4 knots sewing
> machining along.  It's quiet, like ghosting.
> 
> The new four blade prop that Defender has looks even
> better and might give
> your 8 more muscle.
> 
> PT
> 
> 
> 

--- Peter Thorn <pthorn at nc.rr.com> wrote:

>
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|215570|220614|292251|316465&id=9
> 26156&cartId=869059
> 
> I have a 2005 Tohatsu 9.8 4-stroke.  I bought the
> stripped model (no elec
> start, no alternator) because at the time I did not
> have a slip and wanted
> the lightest possible weight for trailer sailing. 
> The motor weighs 83
> pounds and most often starts on the first pull. 
> They were out-of-stock on
> the 8 hp, or I would have bought one of those.  I
> understand the 8 and 9.8
> are alike, with minor changes.
> 
> The 6.5 pitch three blade Tohatsu prop and can move
> s/v Raven to 6.0 hull
> speed at 1/4 throttle.  She will push past 7 knots
> at about 3/4 throttle,
> but it's loud and mucho vibration.  The best setting
> is about 4 knots sewing
> machining along.  It's quiet, like ghosting.
> 
> The new four blade prop that Defender has looks even
> better and might give
> your 8 more muscle.
> 
> PT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:50 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] motors
> 
> Lee,
> 
> I can't get my boat on a plane with the 8hp motor. 
> The fact that you 
> can with a 9.9 is interesting.  What do you suppose
> would happen with a 
> 15?  or a 25?
> 
> When wind and chop get too high, the 8 can't push
> the boat at hull speed 
> on Long Island Sound. 
> 
> I have gotten stuck on my anchor when the wind
> exceeded 15 mph.  (The 
> anchor wouldn't let go unless I got right above it
> because the wind had 
> driven it so hard into the bottom.  You quickly
> understand the idea of 
> pulling on the anchor line isn't going to work.  I
> couldn't go straight 
> upwind, and started running into propeller problems
> circling the anchor 
> and coming around from the top.  ((Laterally you get
> blown off 
> course.))  I wound up putting a life preserver on
> the anchor line, 
> throwing the whole line overboard, ((remember, I use
> floating anchor 
> line--no chain)) circling to where the line dipped
> into the water, 
> hooking the line, letting go of the motor, pulling
> the anchor straight 
> up, getting the anchor on board without smashing
> into the boat, pulling 
> in the rest of the line and the life preserver,
> watching the lee shore, 
> hoping the motor didn't stall or get fouled on
> anchor line...
> 
> I don't recommend this when single handing.  If I
> had a larger motor, I 
> would have been able to go straight up wind...
> 
> Now I'm wondering, "How large?"
> 
> Bill Effros
> 
> 
> 
> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > When it comes time to replace my 9.9 Merc, I was
> planning on going
> > electric or dropping down to an 8 hp.  The 9.9
> seems like way too much
> > unnecessary power and way too much weight.  Now
> I'm thinking a 6 hp
> > might be more than enough.
> >
> > Does anyone out there with a 6 hp feel that it's
> not enough?  What's the
> > max speed on calm water?  Have you ever had
> trouble in strong chop or
> > current?
> >
> > My 9.9 will get my Rhodes up on a plane at over
> 6.5 knots in relatively
> > calm water, and I've done just over 7 knots with
> small waves behind me.
> > Pretty useless unless I'm trying to outrun a
> storm.  It's so much
> > quieter at slower speeds.
> >
> > Lee
> > 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
> > Kent Island, MD
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mary Lou Troy [mailto:mtroy at atlanticbb.net] 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:31 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] motors
> >
> > Brad
> > I don't think we ever had our Honda 8 up over 2/3
> throttle even in 
> > the most trying conditions. Usually it would move
> the boat to hull 
> > speed while loafing along at less than 1/2
> throttle so it probably 
> > never really needed all 8 horses. Somewhere the
> law of diminishing 
> > returns has kicked in and I have my suspicions it
> may well be before 
> > 8hp. Too soon to tell on the Yamaha 8 but I would
> expect it to be the 
> > same. The big prop/high thrust may change the
> equation somewhat but I 
> > still am willing to be that it is more motor than
> we need 99.99% of the
> > time.
> >
> > Mary Lou
> > 1991 R22 Fretless
> > Rock Hall, MD
> >
> >
> > At 10:20 AM 5/29/2008, you wrote:
> >   
> >> Bill,
> >>
> >> You are basically correct, the 9.9 engine is
> really a 15 hp engine
> >>     
> > de-rated
> >   
> >> via fuel flow to beat the regs.  The difference
> between 8 hp and 9.9 hp
> >> doesn't mean squat (as Rummy pointed out) because
> of hull speed,
> >>     
> > however,
> >   
> >> the 8 hp engine is working its ass off to produce
> those 8 hp versus the
> >>     
> > 15,
> >   
> >> er, 9.9 is loafing.  We've been having this
> discussion on my Beechcraft
> >> Bonanza board lately because 100LL fuel is dying
> and those boys who own
> >>     
> > the
> >   
> >> 550 cubic inch engines will be forced to de-rate
> their power to burn
> >>     
> > the
> >   
> >> lower octane fuel that my old bird burns with no
> problem.  Weight is
> >>     
> > one
> >   
> >> thing and a whole other issue.  Running a 15 hp
> engine at the 8 hp
> >>     
> > level
> >   
> >> will make for a long lasting engine.
> >>
> >> BTW, I got written-up by a student a few months
> ago because he pissed
> >>     
> > me off
> >   
> >> with his "stump the professor" questions and I
> reminded him of the old
> >>     
> > adage
> >   
> >> of how engines really work -
> SUCK/SQUEEZE/BANG/BLOW.
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Bill Effros
> <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>     
> >>> Tom,
> >>>
> >>> The more powerful engine has the same block with
> a slightly
> >>>       
> > different
> >   
> >>> bore and the fuel injection is calibrated
> differently.  The only
> >>>       
> > real
> >   
> >>> difference is power output and price.
> >>>
> >>> You can compensate for weight hanging off the
> stern by putting a
> >>>       
> > bigger
> >   
> >>> anchor up front.
> >>>
> >>> I am about to get a 4-stroke for the quiet
> factor, and trying to
> >>>       
> > decide
> >   
> >>> between 8 and 9.9.
> >>>
> >>> The 9.9 won't get you any more speed (I don't
> think you can plane
> >>>       
> > when
> >   
> >>> using the motor) but it will get you more power
> when the wind is on
> >>>       
> > your
> >   
> >>> nose--this will allow you to go faster into the
> wind.
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, I would guess it uses more
> fuel for the same
> >>>       
> > distance
> >   
> >>> traveled.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> >>>       
> >>>> Hi Tom,
> >>>> This is a case where I don't think bigger is
> necessarily better.
> >>>>         
> > If
> >   
> >>>> the weights are about the same, it probably is
> a trade-off but in
> >>>>         
> > any
> >   
> >>>> event it's a lot of weight hanging off the
> stern of a Rhodes 22.
> >>>>         
> > I'm
> >   
> >>>> convinced that it does negatively affect
> sailing characteristics.
> >>>>         
> > We
> >   
> >>>> scrounged for every pound that we could in
> looking for a new motor
> >>>> but still ended up over 100 lbs. Of course we
> decided that at this
> >>>> stage in our lives we've both had transient
> shoulder and back
> >>>>         
> > issues
> >   
> >>>> and that electric start made sense so that
> added to the weight.
> >>>>         
> > The
> >   
> >>>> old Honda 8 was about 80 lbs. If I was sailing
> a smaller lake
> >>>> (anything smaller than Lake Champlain) I'd
> probably want a 4 or 6
> >>>>         
> > hp.
> >   
> >>>> Our old Honda "classic" 8 was a high thrust 4
> stroke motor - not
> >>>>         
> > as
> >   
> >>>> high thrust as the Yamaha but it worked really
> well both over long
> >>>> distances and maneuvering in close quarters. We
> haven't figured
> >>>>         
> > out
> >   
> >>>> maneuvering with the Yamaha. It doesn't seem to
> want to turn as
> >>>>         
> > well.
> >   
> >>>> Maybe the high thrust output against the rudder
> is interfering a
> >>>>         
> > bit.
> >   
> >>>> Maybe we just need to get used to it.
> >>>>
> >>>> For motoring long distances (long being 30-35
> miles), you can't
> >>>>         
> > beat
> >   
> >>>> a four stroke. They are quieter and more fuel
> efficient than most
> >>>> older two strokes. The quiet means you can
> easily have a
> >>>>         
> > conversation
> >   
> >>>> with someone else in the cockpit or hear what's
> happening on the
> >>>> radio. It also keeps a peaceful morning motor
> with no wind and
> >>>>         
> > flat
> >   
> >>>> water peaceful.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think low rpms will hurt the motor
> (warning - this entire
> >>>> paragraph is just slightly informed opinion).
> At a certain point
> >>>>         
> > you
> >   
> >>>> don't gain anything. A 15 hp won't move the
> boat any faster or
> >>>>         
> > more
> >   
> >>>> reliably than an 8. I doubt you could tell the
> difference between
> >>>>         
> > and
> >   
> >>>> 8hp and a 9.9hp all other things being equal.
> You are up to the
> >>>>         
> > hull
> >   
> >>>> speed limit easily with either one. I imagine
> (but don't know)
> >>>>         
> > that
> >   
> >>>> you might be able to tell the difference
> between a 6hp and an 8hp
> >>>> coming through some place like Kent Narrows
> with the very strong
> >>>> current under the drawbridge or maybe battling
> an 18 knot wind on
> >>>>         
> > the
> >   
> >>>> nose and a nearly one knot current under the
> Bay Bridge. We've
> >>>>         
> > done
> >   
> >>>> both of those trips with the old Honda and it
> performed very well.
> >>>>         
> > I
> >   
> >>>> expect our new Yamaha 8hp HT would handle both
> of those equally
> >>>>         
> > well.
> >   
> >>>> Mary Lou
> >>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>
> >>>> At 03:28 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>         
> >>>>> Mary Lou,
> >>>>> Thanks, I will keep the ease of flushing the
> motor in mind when I
> >>>>>           
> > buy.
> >   
> >>>  Was
> >>>       
> >>>>> your old 8 a 4 stroke?  Was it high thrust? 
> If the 9.9 and the 8
> >>>>>           
> > have
> >   
> >>> the
> >>>       
> >>>>> same weight, why not buy the most powerful? 
> Is part of the
> >>>>>           
> > answer
> >   
> >>> related
> >>>       
> >>>>> to inefficiency at low rpm, ie., if a stronger
> engine will get to
> >>>>>           
> > hull
> >   
> >>> speed
> >>>       
> >>>>> at lower rpm, will long runs at low rpm harm
> the engine?  In my
> >>>>>           
> >>> landlubber's
> >>>       
> >>>>> imagination, I think a big motor will save my
> ass some day.  As I
> >>>>>           
> > get
> >   
> >>> used
> >>>       
> >>>>> to sailing, I am learning that sailing is
> probalbly safer than
> >>>>>           
> > motoring,
> >   
> >>> but
> >>>       
> >>>>> I do want the ability to cruise long
> distances, maybe 20-30
> >>>>>           
> > windless
> >   
> >>> miles
> >>>       
> >>>>> with a reliable motor.
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Tom Hogarty, boat still on trailer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mary Lou Troy-2 wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> Tom,
> >>>>>> If you are going to be leaving the boat in
> the water, one thing
> >>>>>>             
> > to
> >   
> >>>>>> consider is how easy it is to flush the motor
> with the boat in
> >>>>>>             
> > the
> >   
> >>>>>> water. We recently had to replace our 10 year
> old Honda which
> >>>>>>             
> > died
> >   
> >>>>>> from saltwater corrosion in the cooling water
> passages. There
> >>>>>>             
> > was no
> >   
> >>>>>> way to easily flush the motor. Newer Hondas
> have a more
> >>>>>>             
> > accessible
> >   
> >>>>>> flushing mechanism as do the Yamahas which is
> what we ended uo
> >>>>>>             
> > with
> >   
> >>>>>> (8 hp high thrust). Too soon to tell you how
> we like it compared
> >>>>>>             
> > to
> >   
> >>>>>> the Honda. We looked at a Mercury that was
> not easily flushed.
> >>>>>>             
> > I've
> >   
> >>>>>> heard but couldn't verify that the clearance
> in the cooling
> >>>>>>             
> > passages
> >   
> >>>>>> in the Merc are larger than in the Honda so
> this may not be a
> >>>>>> problem. We didn't want to chance it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We've found that 8 hp seems to be more than
> enough for any
> >>>>>>             
> > conditions
> >   
> >>>>>> you might want to be out in. The old 8 horse
> Honda pushed us
> >>>>>>             
> > through
> >   
> >>>>>> some strong currents, high winds and good
> sized waves on the
> >>>>>>             
> > nose. We
> >   
> >>>>>> could motor easily at hull speed in milder
> conditions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mary Lou
> >>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>>> Finally in the water in Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At 11:16 PM 5/27/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>> Rob,
> >>>>>>> I plan to sail the Chesapeake and am just
> mulling over the
> >>>>>>>               
> > purchase of
> >   
> >>> a
> >>>       
> >>>>>>> high thrust outboard, certainly a 4 stroke.
> >>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rob Lowe wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> Tom,
> >>>>>>>> Where are you sailing?  I sail an inland
> lake and my standard
> >>>>>>>>                 
> > 8hp 4
> >   
> >>>>>>> stroke
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> has more than enough power.  I rarely run
> it over 1/2
> >>>>>>>>                 
> > throttle.
> >   
> >>>  Those
> >>>       
> >>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> the coast might recommend something
> different.  In fact, I
> >>>>>>>>                 
> > suspect a
> >   
> >>>>>>> 6hp
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> would suit my needs.  At one time there was
> a big 2 vs. 4
> >>>>>>>>                 
> > stroke
> >   
> >>> debate
> >>>       
> >>>>>>>> amongst the members, but if you are
> considering a new motor,
> >>>>>>>>                 
> > about
> >   
> >>> all
> >>>       
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> can find is a 4 stroke unless you are
> looking at discontinued
> >>>>>>>>                 
> > models.
> >   
> >>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> rob
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Hogarty" <hogarty at vcn.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:24 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics:
> Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>>>> I am also considering a new outboard.  Are
> the high thrust
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > models, 8
> >   
> >>>>>>> or 9
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> hp
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>>>> ok?  When not specified, I assume you are
> talking about 4
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > cycles.
> >   
> >>>>>>>>> Tom Hogarty
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>>> Bill,
> >>>>>>>>>> No reflection on the Merc 9.9, but I have
> found, as others,
> >>>>>>>>>>                     
> > that
> >   
> >>> the
> >>>       
> >>>>>>>>>> Tohatsu 8 is one excellent choice for the
> R22.  You might
> >>>>>>>>>>                     
> > give it
> >   
> >>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>>> thought.  I have no idea on costing, but
> Ron Singerman is
> >>>>>>>>>>                     
> > using a
> >   
> >>>>>>> 9.8
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>>> his new boat.
> >>>>>>>>>> Art
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                     
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: bdunn1 <bdunn1 at aol.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: May 27, 2008 11:40 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> >>>>>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: 
> Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rummy: Need your advice; my 8 hp Yamaha
> on my 98 Rhodes bit
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> > the
> >   
> >>>>>>> dust; I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>> am considering a 9.9 Mercury 4-cycle. When
> I bought the boat
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > used it
> >   
> >>>>>>> had
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>> the remote controls and the motor
> connected to the rudder for
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>> steering.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>> Question: Can I use the Mercury with the
> standard "all the
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > controls
> >   
> >>> in
> >>>       
> >>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>> handle", not connect it to the rudder and
> steer into and out
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > of the
> >   
> >>>>>>> dock
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>> with the rudder in the upright position
> using the motor to
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > steer?
> >   
> >>>>>>> There
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>> will be some conflict with the railing but
> I thought by
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> > tilting the
> >   
> >>>>>>>> control
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>>>> it would be ok.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>>>> regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Bill Dunn
> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:20:26 AM,
> R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> > wrote:
> >   
> >>>>>>>>>>> From:   R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject:    Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>>>> Date:   May 27, 2008 10:20:26 AM EDT
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> Nope, not a thing. Same crap, different
> day. You know,
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> > politics
> >   
> >>> and
> >>>       
> >>>>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>>>> sailing stuff thrown in for good
> measure.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rummy
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In a message dated 5/27/2008 10:13:38
> A.M. Eastern Daylight
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> > Time,
> >   
> >>>>>>>>>>> bill at effros.com writes:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Have I missed anything?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>>>>> s/v Little Queenie
> >>>>>>>>>>> Greenwich, CT
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> **************Get trade secrets for
> amazing burgers. Watch
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> >>> "Cooking
> >>>       
> >>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>>>> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> >>>>>>>>> (
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >
>
http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
> >   
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>                       
> >>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                     
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p
> > 17500355.html
> >   
> >>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                   
> >>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp174
> >   
> >>>>> 91569p17504382.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> >>>>>>> Checked by AVG.
> >>>>>>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database:
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> >>>>>>>               
> > Date:
> >   
> >>>>>>> 5/26/2008 3:23 PM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


      


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