[Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 23 20:31:48 EST 2008
That'll have to be a qualified 'yes.' Remember that my position is based on what I observed and lived for 33 years in a highly regarded, highly rated school system in the Northern Virginia suburbs.
Teachers have very little discipline power as administrators do not stand behind them, and central office administrators do not stand behind school administrators. Central office legal counsel is a joke. the kid knows he has the power..all he ahs to do is callin mom or dad & lie, and the school backs dow. Of course, the teacher was wrong.
Teachrs, being on the bottom of this discipline chain, are at the mercy of the administrators. On the occasion (rare!) that there is as administrator who has the ..um...fortitude..to stand up for whatever is right & sane in a disciplinary matter, , you'll see a school that works. It is the same principle of parents who hold the line & those who let the kids run wild.
Many parents have NO idea how their kids behave in school...if they knew, they would be appalled. (of course, it would be the school's fault!
(Just one facet here:) The special ed lobby in VA has administrators tied in knots. It is almost impossible to discipline any sp ed kid as all the parent has to do is have it documented that the misbehavior is part of the child's disability and there's nothing that can be done. And I am talking of severe behaviors.
This is a very narrow lens, I know, but kids & systems don't differ that much.
The dialog is this: The teacher is wrong. S/he embarassed, scared (your lie here) my kid. My kid is perfect and would do no such thing.
Herb,
I've just remembered a true story emailed to me by a friend (it happened to her!) who is at or very near to retirement age. I have to sign out of this list & go get it from another...I'll be back in a few with a true story that will appall you.
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:46 PM
> Interesting. Please do note, MY position is that both the
> educational
> community (primarily the administrative, but the teachers
> themselves are
> also part of the problem), and the parents share fault in
> the current
> situation. Is it really your position that the educational
> community
> shares no blame in this mess?
>
> elle wrote:
> > Herb,
> >
> > Yep, we are on opposite sides this
> time...'seeing' the school system from whatever
> angles and being in the employ for two doesn't hold a
> candle to every day for 33 years, in three different levels
> (elementary, jr high (I high-tailed it out of there to the
> high school when they went to the middle-school-hormone-hell
> model) & high school.
> >
> > Ya gotta have the shoes on in order to walk that
> mile...
> >
> > elle
> >
> >
> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
> can adjust our sails.
> >
> > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> (Lady in Red)
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:31 PM
> >> Well elle, we're going to have to disagree on
> this one.
> >> I pay school
> >> taxes, thus I DO have a "dog in this
> hunt". I
> >> also had 4 children in
> >> various public and private schools over the years,
> and I
> >> did in fact
> >> spend two years in the employ of a local school
> district.
> >> I've seen the
> >> system from just about every angle possible.
> >>
> >>
> >> elle wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sorry, Herb. You know not of which you speak.
> In fact,
> >>>
> >> you acknowledge it at the beginning when you
> >> said,"Actually, I think ..."
> >>
> >>>
> >>> You may analyze,think, suppose and assume,
> burt unless
> >>>
> >> you spent the years from 1969-2002 in an
> elementary, junior
> >> high and high school classroom, with upwards of
> 120 vastly
> >> differing 'entitled' students of all
> colors,
> >> backgrounds, attitudes, and watched the society
> change from
> >> the kid needing correction (being able to paddle
> (which was
> >> allowed) to the teacher needs correction
> ("you
> >> embarrassed my child when he had no
> homework....") you
> >> really have no dog in this hunt.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> elle
> >>>
> >>> BYW....FYI I'm at -6 on the "Life
> >>>
> >> Sucks-O-Meter" so be forwarned and
> forarmed...;^)
> >>
> >>> We can't change the angle of the
> wind....but we
> >>>
> >> can adjust our sails.
> >>
> >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> "WaterMusic"
> >>>
> >> (Lady in Red)
> >>
> >>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
> >>>
> >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>
> >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>
> >>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:42 PM
> >>>
> >>> Actually, I think it's a combination of
> multiple
> >>>
> >> issues. Let's face it,
> >>
> >>> if the educational lobby concentrated as hard
> on
> >>>
> >> issues like the one you
> >>
> >>> just mentioned as they do on increasing
> funding,
> >>>
> >> increasing the size of
> >>
> >>> their bureaucracy, protecting incompetent
> >>>
> >> "educators", etc., those
> >>
> >>> laws
> >>> likely would never have been passed.
> >>>
> >>> At the same time, if we as parents, were more
> involved
> >>>
> >> in the
> >>
> >>> educational process of our children, most of
> us would
> >>>
> >> be surprised at
> >>
> >>> exactly what we can do. However, in the
> relative
> >>>
> >> vaccumn of parental
> >>
> >>> involvement, the bureaucracies have thrived
> like a
> >>>
> >> fungus, and we've
> >>
> >>> ended up where we are now.
> >>>
> >>> As Brad alluded to, that's one of the
> reasons we
> >>>
> >> see people making the
> >>
> >>> sacrifices they make to keep their kids in
> private
> >>>
> >> schools where there
> >>
> >>> the bureaucratic mess is mitigated. And
> I'm not
> >>>
> >> talking about the
> >>
> >>> wealthy, who put their kids in private school
> without
> >>>
> >> thought or effort.
> >>
> >>> I'm talking about the working class Joe
> that makes
> >>>
> >> real sacrifices
> >>
> >>> because they've been scared off by the
> mess that
> >>>
> >> public school has become.
> >>
> >>> elle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Read the papers, Herb.
> >>>>
> >>>> Educators haven't 'turned
> over'
> >>>>
> >> discipline; it has been ripped
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> out of their control by laws and regulations
> and
> >>>
> >> lawsuits.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Don't tax yourself by making this too
> hard;
> >>>>
> >> just concentrate on
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> looking up the laws regulating the
> disciplining of
> >>>
> >> special ed students.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> You might want to add in the students on
> probation
> >>>>
> >> who are sent back to
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> school by naive judges.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> That's a fun mix to have in the
> classroom: a
> >>>>
> >> kid who knows you
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> can't do anything to him & a kid who
> >>>
> >> doesn't care what is done to
> >>
> >>> him.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Oh..add a few who don't speak
> English.....
> >>>>
> >>>> Great atmosphere for readin' &
> >>>>
> >> writin'.
> >>
> >>>> elle
> >>>>
> >>>> We can't change the angle of the
> wind....but
> >>>>
> >> we can adjust our sails.
> >>
> >>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> >>>>
> >> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>
> >>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
> >>>>
> >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Herb Parsons
> >>>>>
> >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My
> God!
> >>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email
> List"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008,
> 9:42 PM
> >>>>> Isn't it amazing how much
> educators have
> >>>>>
> >> turned over
> >>
> >>>>> discipline to
> >>>>> "professionals" so they can
> >>>>>
> >> "concentrate on
> >>
> >>>>> educating"; yet the overall
> >>>>> education level is declining?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It all reminds me of an incident
> that
> >>>>>>
> >> happened about
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> two weeks ago
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> (and a similar incident 2 decades
> ago when
> >>>>>>
> >> my older
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> boys were
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> youngsters). One of Fan's
> friends, a
> >>>>>>
> >> Filipino
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> lady who husband was
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> making rounds as Doc on a Saturday
> >>>>>>
> >> morning, made the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> mistake of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> leaving her five year-old with me
> for the
> >>>>>>
> >> morning so
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> they could go
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> shopping. I couldn't wait for
> their
> >>>>>>
> >> car to hit
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the end of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> driveway. When they returned,
> Momma
> >>>>>>
> >> Filipino asked me
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> how "little
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> shithead" and I got along.
> "Oh,
> >>>>>>
> >> just fine,
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> he's a sweet kid". I'm
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> assuming he was still too scared
> to tell
> >>>>>>
> >> mom how I
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> picked him up by
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> his britches (therefore scrunching
> what
> >>>>>>
> >> little nuts he
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> had) to have a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 'mano-a-mano' talk at eye
> level.
> >>>>>>
> >> These
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> gutless wonders who call cops
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> for silly shit they should handle
> real
> >>>>>>
> >> time not only
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> amaze me, but
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> piss me off.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And you wonder why people work two
> jobs to
> >>>>>>
> >> send their
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> kids to a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> private school where they can be
> kicked
> >>>>>>
> >> out in a
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> heartbeat?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 5:55 PM,
> Herb
> >>>>>>
> >> Parsons
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I read that one too, and was
> all
> >>>>>>>
> >> prepared to be
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> outraged as well;
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> however, I think this is a
> case of
> >>>>>>>
> >> creating
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> "attention grabbing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> headlines". I suspect
> that the
> >>>>>>>
> >> kid turning
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> off the computers of those
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> around him during the computer
> class
> >>>>>>>
> >> was the real
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> disruption that got
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> him in trouble. If you isolate
> the
> >>>>>>>
> >> two, it makes
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> it pretty apparent.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> If he was ONLY turning off
> computers
> >>>>>>>
> >> during
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> computer class, would he
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> have been disciplined - most
> likely
> >>>>>>> If he was ONLY "passing
> >>>>>>>
> >> wind" during
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> class, would have been disciplined
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> - probably not
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the last one was the case
> though,
> >>>>>>>
> >> THEN it would
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> have made for a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> really interesting story.
> Right up
> >>>>>>>
> >> there with the
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> ones about 5 year olds
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> being disciplined for
> "sexual
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> harrassment" for kissing girls.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now THAT was an art form when
> I was a
> >>>>>>>
> >> kid :)
> >>
> >>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Good thing they finally
> busted
> >>>>>>>>
> >> this kid.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> Imagine, if you let this
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> kind of thing go on
> he'd
> >>>>>>>>
> >> eventually end of
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> Governor of some state
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ignoring the slaughter of
> >>>>>>>>
> >> Thanksgiving
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> turkeys. In my family, "passing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> gas" was considered
> an art
> >>>>>>>>
> >> form and
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> I've always been a competitive
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> person. Thank goodness my
> school
> >>>>>>>>
> >> teachers had
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> a sense of humor - at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> least I'd like to
> think they
> >>>>>>>>
> >> did.
> >>
> >>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1121083gas1.html
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe
> or for
> >>>>>>>>
> >> help with
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> using the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or
> for help
> >>>>>>>
> >> with using
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help with
> >>>>>>
> >> using the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
> with
> >>>>>
> >> using the mailing
> >>
> >>>>> list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using
> >>>>
> >> the mailing list go to
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Herb Parsons
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the mailing
> >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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