[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans
Rik Sandberg
sanderico1 at gmail.com
Tue Sep 9 13:11:27 EDT 2008
Herb,
Well, here you go my friend. War is a terrible analogy.
IF we are going to have freedom OF religion, which would also include
freedom FROM religion and the abortion issue is mostly decided on a
religious (or non-religious, choice again) basis, it is not our place to
expect anyone else to assume our religious beliefs.
Which leads us right back to; the gov't should have no voice in this at all.
Rik
Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
Herb Parsons wrote:
> I like your honest assessment on Palin, but I disagree about your
> labeling of the position.
>
> If I say I'm not going to fight in a war, but it's OK if my government
> attacks another, am I anti-war, or pro-war?
>
> Obviously, you'll not have an abortion, that would mean a male could be
> neither pro or anti; however, anyone that believes the issue does not
> affect me is wearing blinders.
>
>
> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>
>> Herb,
>>
>> Agreed. Palin claims no more religiousity (is that a word, sounds good)
>> than either of the other three candidates involved. She has also shown
>> that she can govern without forcing forcing those beliefs on her
>> constituents.
>>
>> On the abortion issue: Yep, she's against them, for her. So am I, for
>> me. I am pro-choice. People just can't seem to get a handle on the idea
>> that pro-choice doesn't mean anti or pro abortion. It means you should
>> be able to make your own choice and let others make theirs, ie, mind
>> your own business.
>>
>> From what I've seen Palin, as governor of Alaska has been doing this too.
>>
>> If I had my way, the federal gov't wouldn't be involved in abortion at all.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>
>>
>>
>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Stan,
>>>
>>> What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that Palin
>>> would force her religious belief on anyone? My understanding is that
>>> she's all for allowing the individual states to set the standard.
>>> However, that's really beside the point. As you said, anyone's pinpoint
>>> of the exact time is a "religious" matter, or a matter of fath, thus
>>> ANYONE setting pinpointed time would be them foisting their beliefs on
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Surely you're not advocating allowing the parents to decide at any time
>>> they choose, up to and including while the "fetus" is still in college?
>>>
>>> stan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Slim,
>>>>
>>>> As a member of your religious faith, and an ardent fan, if you really plan
>>>> to skip voting (in effect voting for those whose direct religious
>>>> instructions got us into such a waste of our wealth and blood) I would be
>>>> truly saddened. I don't think poorly of John's and Palin's inability to
>>>> live up to their own family values, relying on their gods to forgive them -
>>>> I worry about their health; a topic that seems to be forbidden to address.
>>>> John's cheek is not like that from his prisoner days and his vp could be our
>>>> leader without notice. Then where would this country's founding desire for
>>>> religious freedom end up? The first example is already on the table and
>>>> Catholic Joe has it right: When life starts is a religious opinion and
>>>> should not be one decided by government. You may feel life does not start
>>>> until a breath is taken, the Jews count a number of months before the start,
>>>> the Christens count from the moment the cells begin dividing. Personally I
>>>> don't think it starts until after college. If we allow a Palin to call such
>>>> shots we are on a path Jefferson and all those other smart guys insisted on
>>>> avoiding. McCain told the TV interviewer that if he had his way the first
>>>> judge he would get rid of is Ginsberg and than went down the list of her
>>>> kind. Once this is allowed to start (we already have allowed god onto our
>>>> coins), god (hypocritically speaking) help us - or we will all, eventually,
>>>> become strong advocates of the second amendment.
>>>>
>>>> John, at least is a flip flopper so, if elected, would probably revert to
>>>> many of his reasonable positions. It is Palin I am fearful will give us
>>>> even worse than another 8 years. (And this from a confessed womanizer.)
>>>>
>>>> stan/ec
>>>> .
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Steven Alm" <stevenalm at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:02 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus,the "evolutionists" are going to
>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a religious kook. And you're right, I
>>>>> won't vote for a religious kook. I haven't studied Darwin very much (and
>>>>> I
>>>>> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't think that's the only rebuke
>>>>> to creationism. Since most of the species of plant and animal life on
>>>>> this
>>>>> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that "unintelligent design."
>>>>>
>>>>> You said there are only two possibilities as to how life started. Are you
>>>>> sure? How do you know this? What I know is that all religions serve in
>>>>> answering three questions: Where did we come from, how do we live and
>>>>> what
>>>>> happens when we die? Myself, I've answered those questions to my own
>>>>> satisfaction and I don't need the church to tell me anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Slim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim, Wow! are you are going to vote for Obama because he is a Marxist
>>>>>> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a religious extremist? :^D
>>>>>> Glad you mentioned carbon dating. Carbon has been proven by many
>>>>>> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of dating. I am far from
>>>>>> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking the earth is only a
>>>>>> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just as much scientific
>>>>>> information out there to; while not proving creation is the truth, surely
>>>>>> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible. You are/were an
>>>>>> educator and were taught evolution from a text book, like we all were.
>>>>>> Just because you read something in a text book does not make it truth.
>>>>>> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe we could all stomach
>>>>>> creationism if we called it a theory too. After all that is what
>>>>>> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are equally as many
>>>>>> scientists out there who believe they have proven evolution is myth. It
>>>>>> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway. He thought he could further explain
>>>>>> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non life and everything
>>>>>> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists say it was that first
>>>>>> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of "primordial ooze." I like how
>>>>>> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is
>>>>>> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a supernatural
>>>>>> creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous
>>>>>> generation that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically
>>>>>> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us with
>>>>>> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of God. I
>>>>>> will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to believe in
>>>>>> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically
>>>>>> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at the
>>>>>> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin himself realized
>>>>>> evolution was not workable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for
>>>>>> adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different
>>>>>> amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic
>>>>>> aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely
>>>>>> confess, absurd in the highest degree possible." (Charles Darwin, "The
>>>>>> origin of species by means of natural selection")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could
>>>>>> not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight
>>>>>> modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." (Charles Darwin,
>>>>>> "The Origin of Species")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself whether
>>>>>> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy." (Charles Darwin, Life and
>>>>>> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted doctors and scientists to
>>>>>> try to "prove" evolution wrong or creation right. I could "do my
>>>>>> homework" as we say here on the list and cite actual findings, but that
>>>>>> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the possibility of God or some other
>>>>>> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our notions that it is ok
>>>>>> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when the schools teach this
>>>>>> gargage to my kids while denying the right to learn about the theory of
>>>>>> creation along with evolution) or that it should be a crime to kill a
>>>>>> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say everyone believing in
>>>>>> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you have made me see this as
>>>>>> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues aside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were "selected") from apes.
>>>>>> We don't want any of the apes that were not selected to be made to feel
>>>>>> inferior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm"
>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are going to
>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious beliefs."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane, critical thinkers. Palin is
>>>>>> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were a Catholic or a Lutheran
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> here's a woman who wants to stare down the whole scientific community and
>>>>>> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that the heavens and earth
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just call ME an extremist, did
>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that his parishioners should
>>>>>> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at the end of the world,
>>>>>> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't believe that was you quoting all that God stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of separating her
>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be better if she didn't have to?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious beliefs.
>>>>>>>> She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of separating her
>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that would have
>>>>>>>> denied benefits to gay couples.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, you extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll find (or make up)
>>>>>>>> SOMETHING on her.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal breaker for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The most important legacy the president leaves is the appointment of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> supreme court.
>>>>>>>>> The next pres might appoint as many as three. If Sarabaracuda has
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> her
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat hanger
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> abortions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered as a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> running
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now being
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> touted as
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find something
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact that's she
>>>>>>>>>> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dialogue
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of discussion and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> your
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> idiot to boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears overseas. At
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RNC,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> administration. Where were the solutions. Once again, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an issues
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA", McCain is now
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> candidate and stated that he will end the incredible corruption in
>>>>>>>>>>> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has re-defined a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues within the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> last
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> years including his own authored bill that he was for and now
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of Palin vs
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obama.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a waste of time. The entire Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove, etc
>>>>>>>>>>> administration could be argued to be the most experienced
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> administration
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior "executive
>>>>>>>>>>> experience". For the first time in recent politics the Republicans
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How was it
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts, but when
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really gone too
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the twisting
>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not attack
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the shredding of the
>>>>>>>>>>> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another religious
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> kook
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious right to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'bridge'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> them into this administration and get money.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing chinese
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive government
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> planet at this time is a conservative value?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these extremists
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of conservatism?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> top key pillars of conservatism are less government and government
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> intrusion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration that walked
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion dollar
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> surplus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> blew
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11. And there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> government intrusion that being told what you can or cannot do
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family decisions, but
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> she
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So....are we having fun yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping up to join
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Assault on the Citadel".
>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's fire is
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> spread
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among more than one target.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "illegitimi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> non carborundum".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up. I posted
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist, or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> farm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> animal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What did he expect when he said that?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> his
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or McCain
>>>>>>>>>>>> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate policy and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar" could be an
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> First,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as Tootle did is
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people support
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>>>>>>>>>>>> not an argument supporting any position. For example, Herb, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part for that
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not hyperbole to point
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the policy differences that explain my choice. What I know for
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with it. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and am
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared to explain and justify them. In Brad's oft' repeated
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> mantra
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> know I have "done my homework".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> go
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
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>>>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
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>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
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