[Rhodes22-list] Rik S., a question of when life begins and Ben C.'s comment thereon

Herb Parsons hparsons at parsonsys.com
Wed Sep 10 14:12:26 EDT 2008


My my, did you think I was offering approval (or even disapproval)? This 
was merely a discussion. A discussion which, I might add, was branched 
off Governor Palin's assumed legal stance (the assumption was wrong) 
based on her personal beliefs.

However, at the risk of sounding like I'm approving of anything, I agree 
with you in that I too, don't believe it should be the place of the 
federal government to force their will on anyone. I wish they'd kept out 
of it, and left it to the state.


Rik Sandberg wrote:
> Herb,
>
> Nothing I have said should be construed to mean I would not try to 
> convince someone I know or might come in contact with that there might 
> not be a better solution to her pregnancy than an abortion. And, in fact 
> I have. I have said that I would not want an abortion in my family. I 
> have also said that I do not feel it is the federal government's place 
> to force their will on those who find themselves in the position of 
> having to make their choice.
>
> That said, I have said what I think on this matter. I don't need, nor 
> was I hoping to receive your approval.
>
> Rik
>
> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>
>
>
> Herb Parsons wrote:
>   
>> You do understand that I haven't "decided" the issue in order to judge.
>>
>> A civilization decides to "dehumanize" members of one race. Members of 
>> that civilization eventually come to their senses and decide to change 
>> it. That's not judgment, that's trying to make a change. Now, if you 
>> want me today to condemn those who practiced what was law at the time, 
>> THAT would be judgment. I have no need, or desire, to judge them.
>>
>> Today, we as a civilization are allowing the massacre of millions of 
>> unborn babies, primarily in the name of convenience for the mother. I 
>> don't care to retroactive punish, or even publicly humiliate, those 
>> individuals; however, I have no problem at all saying I believe that the 
>> practice is wrong, and more importantly, I believe our nation's flip 
>> attitude concerning the issue is wrong. Nor do I believe I'm doing 
>> anything wrong in trying to change our "corporate" tolerance of the 
>> practice. I'll continue to try to bring about that change for as long as 
>> I'm around.
>>
>>
>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Ed,
>>>
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old time
>>>> line is wrong.  It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now have
>>>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong.  It is not a religious thing,
>>>> but now a factual thing.  
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> What an unborn embryo/fetus looks like in a picture has virtually 
>>> nothing to do with this issue. So, your facts are actually, just your 
>>> opinion. It has been known for a long time, long before before pictures 
>>> were possible, that, that clump of cells in a mothers womb was 
>>> eventually going to become a baby.
>>>
>>> As I have said previously, I will have to answer to my god when all is 
>>> said and done as will everyone else, whether they know or believe they 
>>> have a god or not. That may be a fact or not, but no one will know that 
>>> absolutely until it's too late for them to return to explain it to the 
>>> rest of us. 'Til then I will continue to try my best to judge not, lest 
>>> I be judged.
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> RiK,
>>>>
>>>> When Roe v Wade was decided there was not accurate information available to
>>>> answer the question with any certainty.
>>>>
>>>> However, science and medical tools have advanced.  Just look at Ultrasound
>>>> pictures and ecocardiograms available today.  
>>>>
>>>> Today nobody is willing to look at current medical information and say the
>>>> old time frame is not true, not accurate in light of modern information.
>>>>
>>>> I originally thought that your's and Ben's arguement were acceptable.  Ben
>>>> said, "It's a judgment call. It seems reasonable enough to me."
>>>>
>>>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old time
>>>> line is wrong.  It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now have
>>>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong.  It is not a religious thing,
>>>> but now a factual thing.  
>>>>
>>>> Where is Alice on this subject.  Still trying to start her Yamaha?
>>>>
>>>> Your opinion just walks away from killing.  When you are in a nursing home
>>>> and too feeble to stop them, will it be just as acceptable for them to put a
>>>> blanket over your head and do a Dr. Kevorkian?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have had to change my opinion because the facts and scientific
>>>> information are now available.
>>>>
>>>> Ed K
>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm with you.  I only get to play God a few times a month when I'm
>>>>> giving a checkride and even then there's "higher powers" that will
>>>>> question my decisions.  Here's a couple of neat videos of real people.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://kdka.com/local/Palin.Down.Syndrome.2.809737.html
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.wpxi.com/video/17384228/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure why you'd be asking me this question. I have already stated
>>>>>> that I am not in favor of abortion, but I do mind my own business. Also,
>>>>>> I am surely no expert on either the medical or scientific aspects of
>>>>>> pregnancy/child bearing so this question, as others have said, is
>>>>>> probably above my pay grade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't like to see people performing the scenario, partial birth
>>>>>> abortion I believe it is called, that Todd was talking about. I'm pretty
>>>>>> sure that a fetus is truly a person by then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing I do know is, nobody is going to have to answer for my sins
>>>>>> but me. As such, since I am not without sin, I have no business casting
>>>>>> stones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using modern science and modern medical and scientific tools, when
>>>>>>> exactly
>>>>>>> does life begin?  Disregard court opinions, which are just opinions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>> addendum, 'Making right choices in gray areas is difficult.  To be aware
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the dilemma is not enough.   There needs to be a moral sensitivity which
>>>>>>> remembers to ask the right questions at the right time.  To know what is
>>>>>>> good is not enough?  There is a difference between waking up and getting
>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>> There must be specific decision for the right.  To be sensitive and
>>>>>>> aware is
>>>>>>> good.  To make proper decisions is better.'  Paraphrase of Bryan
>>>>>>> Crenshaw
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
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>>>>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
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