[Rhodes22-list] Rik S., a question of when life begins and Ben C.'s comment thereon

Rik Sandberg sanderico1 at gmail.com
Wed Sep 10 14:05:31 EDT 2008 

Herb,

Nothing I have said should be construed to mean I would not try to 
convince someone I know or might come in contact with that there might 
not be a better solution to her pregnancy than an abortion. And, in fact 
I have. I have said that I would not want an abortion in my family. I 
have also said that I do not feel it is the federal government's place 
to force their will on those who find themselves in the position of 
having to make their choice.

That said, I have said what I think on this matter. I don't need, nor 
was I hoping to receive your approval.

Rik

Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault



Herb Parsons wrote:
> You do understand that I haven't "decided" the issue in order to judge.
>
> A civilization decides to "dehumanize" members of one race. Members of 
> that civilization eventually come to their senses and decide to change 
> it. That's not judgment, that's trying to make a change. Now, if you 
> want me today to condemn those who practiced what was law at the time, 
> THAT would be judgment. I have no need, or desire, to judge them.
>
> Today, we as a civilization are allowing the massacre of millions of 
> unborn babies, primarily in the name of convenience for the mother. I 
> don't care to retroactive punish, or even publicly humiliate, those 
> individuals; however, I have no problem at all saying I believe that the 
> practice is wrong, and more importantly, I believe our nation's flip 
> attitude concerning the issue is wrong. Nor do I believe I'm doing 
> anything wrong in trying to change our "corporate" tolerance of the 
> practice. I'll continue to try to bring about that change for as long as 
> I'm around.
>
>
> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>   
>> Ed,
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old time
>>> line is wrong.  It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now have
>>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong.  It is not a religious thing,
>>> but now a factual thing.  
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> What an unborn embryo/fetus looks like in a picture has virtually 
>> nothing to do with this issue. So, your facts are actually, just your 
>> opinion. It has been known for a long time, long before before pictures 
>> were possible, that, that clump of cells in a mothers womb was 
>> eventually going to become a baby.
>>
>> As I have said previously, I will have to answer to my god when all is 
>> said and done as will everyone else, whether they know or believe they 
>> have a god or not. That may be a fact or not, but no one will know that 
>> absolutely until it's too late for them to return to explain it to the 
>> rest of us. 'Til then I will continue to try my best to judge not, lest 
>> I be judged.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>
>>
>>
>> Tootle wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> RiK,
>>>
>>> When Roe v Wade was decided there was not accurate information available to
>>> answer the question with any certainty.
>>>
>>> However, science and medical tools have advanced.  Just look at Ultrasound
>>> pictures and ecocardiograms available today.  
>>>
>>> Today nobody is willing to look at current medical information and say the
>>> old time frame is not true, not accurate in light of modern information.
>>>
>>> I originally thought that your's and Ben's arguement were acceptable.  Ben
>>> said, "It's a judgment call. It seems reasonable enough to me."
>>>
>>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old time
>>> line is wrong.  It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now have
>>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong.  It is not a religious thing,
>>> but now a factual thing.  
>>>
>>> Where is Alice on this subject.  Still trying to start her Yamaha?
>>>
>>> Your opinion just walks away from killing.  When you are in a nursing home
>>> and too feeble to stop them, will it be just as acceptable for them to put a
>>> blanket over your head and do a Dr. Kevorkian?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I have had to change my opinion because the facts and scientific
>>> information are now available.
>>>
>>> Ed K
>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Rik,
>>>>
>>>> I'm with you.  I only get to play God a few times a month when I'm
>>>> giving a checkride and even then there's "higher powers" that will
>>>> question my decisions.  Here's a couple of neat videos of real people.
>>>>
>>>> http://kdka.com/local/Palin.Down.Syndrome.2.809737.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.wpxi.com/video/17384228/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure why you'd be asking me this question. I have already stated
>>>>> that I am not in favor of abortion, but I do mind my own business. Also,
>>>>> I am surely no expert on either the medical or scientific aspects of
>>>>> pregnancy/child bearing so this question, as others have said, is
>>>>> probably above my pay grade.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't like to see people performing the scenario, partial birth
>>>>> abortion I believe it is called, that Todd was talking about. I'm pretty
>>>>> sure that a fetus is truly a person by then.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I do know is, nobody is going to have to answer for my sins
>>>>> but me. As such, since I am not without sin, I have no business casting
>>>>> stones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using modern science and modern medical and scientific tools, when
>>>>>> exactly
>>>>>> does life begin?  Disregard court opinions, which are just opinions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>> addendum, 'Making right choices in gray areas is difficult.  To be aware
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the dilemma is not enough.   There needs to be a moral sensitivity which
>>>>>> remembers to ask the right questions at the right time.  To know what is
>>>>>> good is not enough?  There is a difference between waking up and getting
>>>>>> up.
>>>>>> There must be specific decision for the right.  To be sensitive and
>>>>>> aware is
>>>>>> good.  To make proper decisions is better.'  Paraphrase of Bryan
>>>>>> Crenshaw
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
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>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
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>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
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>>     
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