[Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses

Peter Thorn pthorn at nc.rr.com
Tue Sep 16 16:19:51 EDT 2008


The GPS can be set to provide an exact scale drawing of your travels.  This
shows your tacking angles, changes possible due to windshifts, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:48 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses

Peter,

Please run this past me again.  I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.

BE



Peter Thorn wrote:
> Bill,
>
> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs" then
> look at your tracks.   This is cold hard reality and the difference
between
> paying attention and goofing off can be stark.  Compass isn't needed.
>
> PT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>
> Lee,
>
> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>
> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are stunned 
> by the deviation.
>
> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass 
> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't 
> have the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind 
> is coming from.
>
> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far 
> less time adjusting your compass.
>
> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust your 
> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to 
> you.  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are not 
> sure the compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>
> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300 
> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to walk 
> to his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he 
> wouldn't have totaled his boat.  He was going in the right direction, 
> but he was a few degrees off course.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>   
>> Bill,
>>
>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>
>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even more
>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of my
>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>
>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel like
>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't too
>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to nowhere.
>>
>> Lee
>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
>> Kent Island, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:42 AM
>> To: R22 List
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>
>> Todd,
>>
>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>
>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>
>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110 degrees.
>>
>> These are compass directions.
>>
>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>
>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>
>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>
>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>
>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least 2.)
>>
>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong answers.
>>
>> Homework Assignment:
>>
>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects and
>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing, that's
>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>
>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>
>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>
>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
>>
>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>
>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly off,
>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>
>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
>> degree differences.
>>
>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to set
>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass with
>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly -- you
>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>>> Todd T
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: "Bill Effros"
>>>   To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>   Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>   Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>
>>>
>>>   Elle,
>>>
>>>   I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
>>>   deal
>>>   with similar problems.
>>>
>>>   I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
>>>   chain.
>>>
>>>   You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
>>>     
>>>       
>> in
>>   
>>     
>>>   a
>>>   pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
>>>   anchor
>>>   locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
>>>   from
>>>   it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
>>>   it
>>>   on the other.
>>>
>>>   I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
>>>   drop
>>>   a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
>>>     
>>>       
>> you
>>   
>>     
>>>   drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
>>>     
>>>       
>> it
>>   
>>     
>>>   hits the bottom.
>>>
>>>   If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
>>>   rope
>>>   on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
>>>     
>>>       
>> the
>>   
>>     
>>>   excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>>   deploying
>>>   the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
>>>   surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
>>>   Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
>>>   boat,
>>>   and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
>>>   should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
>>>   above it.
>>>
>>>   I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
>>>   the
>>>   anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>     
>>>       
>> anchor
>>   
>>     
>>>   I
>>>   can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
>>>   surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
>>>   it.
>>>
>>>   It's a lot like fishing.
>>>
>>>   Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
>>>
>>>   If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>>   experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
>>>   the
>>>   sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
>>>   rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
>>>   order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
>>>   withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
>>>   the
>>>   way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
>>>   before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
>>>   permanently set.
>>>
>>>   I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
>>>   never
>>>   has.
>>>
>>>   I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>>   anchor
>>>   into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
>>>   mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
>>>   use
>>>   a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>
>>>   Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
>>>   other
>>>   boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
>>>   easily
>>>   withstand the elements.
>>>
>>>   Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   elle wrote:
>>>   > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>>   > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
>>>   > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>>   > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>>   > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>>   >
>>>   > Opinion?
>>>   >
>>>   > Thanks, elle
>>>   >
>>>   > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
>>>   sails.
>>>   >
>>>   > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   >> From: Bill Effros
>>>   >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>   >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>   >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>>   >> Peter,
>>>   >>
>>>   >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>>   >> the size of the anchor?
>>>   >>
>>>   >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>>   >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>>>   >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>>   >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> I've never tried it, though.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>>   >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>>   >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>>   >> dislodge until you get
>>>   >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
>>>     
>>>       
>> boat
>>   
>>     
>>>   to
>>>   >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>>   >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>>   (There are
>>>   >> hundreds.)
>>>   >>
>>>   >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>>   >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
>>>   from
>>>   >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>>>   >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>>   >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
>>>   on the
>>>   >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
>>>   just
>>>   >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
>>>   stress.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>>   >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
>>>   so I could
>>>   >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
>>>   sit on
>>>   >> the single mushroom.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>>   >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
>>>   creates
>>>   >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
>>>   on the
>>>   >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>>>   >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
>>>   not had
>>>   >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>>>   >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>>>   >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>>   >> in the water than it is on land.
>>>   >>
>>>   >> Bill Effros
>>>   >>
>>>   >>
>>>   >>
>>>   >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> elle,
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> is the best hurricane
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> boats must leave their
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> Creek. It's about 15
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> bottom and then hard clay
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> engineering design at
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> our club.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> shift greatly during the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>>   >> Some anchors are very
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> at holding in mud,
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>>   >> But, if broken loose
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> Fortress will more
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> anchoring technique is
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>>   >> Other experienced storm
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> with our special
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> of the boat, the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> rode and chain.
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> attach a Fortress or
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> quickly reset if the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> for the Fortress to
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> large), but I think the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> ground tackle.
>>>   >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> I just hauled her
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> But it think it's
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> wind gods send us.
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> PT
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>   >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>   >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> Of elle
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>>   >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>   >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> her head, we decided to
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> the creek...which is a
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> at about 45 deg off the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> comes with the boat &
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> 8-10' of chain.
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> mechanism is in the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> have massive chafing if
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> then not be
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> head-to-wind.....
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> detritus..mainly
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> would not set w/all the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> as the CQR (my first
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> piling and the other
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> to a tree on shore.
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> elle
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> can adjust our sails.
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> (Lady in Red)
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>   >>>
>>>   >> wrote:
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>   >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>   >>>> Paul,
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> times in
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>>   >>>> locker" yielded:
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>> 1565
>>   
>>     
>>>   >>
>>>   >>> 18
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>>
>>>   >>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>   
>>     
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>   
>>     
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> Rubbermaid
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> although I
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
>>>   locker
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> for my bow
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> and pass
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>> Mike
>>>   >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>   >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>   >>>> Sent:
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >> Sunday,
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>   >>>> impractical way to store
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >> hands to
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>> get in there.
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >> the
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >> and
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>> attaching it to the
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >> when I
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>> need to.
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>
>>>   >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >> suggestion.
>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>> Paul K
>>>   >>>>> "Clarity"
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>   >>
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>>>   >>>>>
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>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
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>>>   >>>>>
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>>>   >>
>>>   >>>>>
>>>   >>>>>
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>>>   >>
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