[Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Wed Sep 17 10:22:42 EDT 2008


Lee,

You had it right the first time.  Better to check me out -- sometimes I 
just make stuff up.

B.



KUHN, LELAND wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I didn't think you knew what you were talking about so I looked it up:
>
> http://www.ablboats.com/story.php?id=24/The-Compass-Up-close-and-persona
> l/
>
> Apparently you do know what you're talking about. :)
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:20 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>
> Herb,
>
> The magnets in all compasses vary.  While location on a boat will surely
>
> influence each compass, if you move "identical" compasses into the same 
> location they will not yield identical deviation tables.
>
> The thing that really drives them nuts is when the compass, or the 
> compass sensor, is not mounted absolutely in the same direction the boat
>
> is pointing.  They then try to adjust that compass using another which 
> actually is pointing in the same direction as the boat.  By the time 
> they figure out the problem, neither compass is usable anymore.
>
> (Modern compasses have little adjuster magnets inside to level out the 
> deviation.  Once they get way out of whack, it take less time and money 
> to buy a new, factory adjusted compass than to try to straighten out the
>
> compass on hand without factory calibrating tools.)
>
> BE
>
>
>
>
>
> Herb Parsons wrote:
>   
>> Isn't it fun how you can get 3 different knowledgeable people with
>>     
> three 
>   
>> different opinions?
>>
>> Actually, I side with Bill on this one, with one major difference.
>>
>> The deviation for a compass is not the particular compass, it's the 
>> location of the particular compass on a particular boat.
>>
>> Everything that attracts a magnet on your boat will affect your
>>     
> compass, 
>   
>> and it WILL vary on different sail points. When you create your
>>     
> charts, 
>   
>> you enter your compass' deviation on the various compass points.
>>
>> And if you don't think it can vary widely on different points, imagine
>>     
>
>   
>> this scenario.
>>
>> You have nice big diesel just a little aft of where your compass is 
>> mounted. Because of its iron content, it pulls your compass. When you 
>> head due south, your compass will likely read pretty true, since the 
>> motor is pulling the needle the same direction as the magnetic pole 
>> pulls it, north.
>>
>> Tunr 90 to port and head 90 true, you can bet your compass is going to
>>     
>
>   
>> be off, because the motor is pulling the needle north.
>>
>> Make sense?
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> Try it with boat compasses on your boat.  Report back.  See what
>>>       
> others 
>   
>>> have to say.
>>>
>>> We are not talking about variation here, which is constant in a given
>>>       
>
>   
>>> area, although constantly changing and noted on charts.
>>>
>>> We are talking about deviation, which is specific to each individual 
>>> compass, and can be 10 degrees off in one direction at one point of 
>>> sail, and 10 degrees off in another direction on another point of
>>>       
> sail.
>   
>>> It's hard to believe until you see it, and the easiest way to see it
>>>       
> is 
>   
>>> using 2 compasses which will not stay synchronized as you swing your
>>>       
> boat.
>   
>>> Try it on a boat with boat compasses.
>>>
>>> BE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> Having been responsible for calibrating many aircraft compasses I
>>>>         
> have to
>   
>>>> disagree with you.  If a compass is off by ten degrees, say it reads
>>>>         
> 260
>   
>>>> instead of 270, then it will be consistently off by the same margin
>>>>         
> around
>   
>>>> the card.  In aircraft, for a simple mag compass, we don't actually
>>>> calibrate it, we take it to the compass rose, start it up with all
>>>>         
> normal
>   
>>>> systems running and then move it around the circle.  With this we
>>>>         
> create a
>   
>>>> deviation card where all the cardinal points are marked.  I've never
>>>>         
> seen
>   
>>>> more than a 2 degree difference in error around the card.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, an inaccurate compass is fine for determining tacking
>>>>         
> points
>   
>>>> as it will be consistently off on either tack.
>>>>
>>>> Hank
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>         
> wrote:
>   
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Lee,
>>>>>
>>>>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are
>>>>>           
> stunned
>   
>>>>> by the deviation.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your
>>>>>           
> compass
>   
>>>>> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really
>>>>>           
> don't
>   
>>>>> have the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true
>>>>>           
> wind
>   
>>>>> is coming from.
>>>>>
>>>>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending
>>>>>           
> far
>   
>>>>> less time adjusting your compass.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust
>>>>>           
> your
>   
>>>>> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened
>>>>>           
> to
>   
>>>>> you.  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are
>>>>>           
> not
>   
>>>>> sure the compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not
>>>>>           
> 300
>   
>>>>> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to
>>>>>           
> walk
>   
>>>>> to his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he
>>>>> wouldn't have totaled his boat.  He was going in the right
>>>>>           
> direction,
>   
>>>>> but he was a few degrees off course.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are
>>>>>>             
> wildly
>   
>>>>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was
>>>>>>             
> complaining
>   
>>>>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
>>>>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even
>>>>>>             
> more
>   
>>>>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost
>>>>>>             
> of my
>   
>>>>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel
>>>>>>             
> like
>   
>>>>>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably
>>>>>>             
> want
>   
>>>>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy
>>>>>>             
> isn't too
>   
>>>>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to
>>>>>>             
> nowhere.
>   
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:42 AM
>>>>>> To: R22 List
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110
>>>>>>             
> degrees.
>   
>>>>>> These are compass directions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
>>>>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least
>>>>>>             
> 2.)
>   
>>>>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong
>>>>>>             
> answers.
>   
>>>>>> Homework Assignment:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal
>>>>>>             
> objects and
>   
>>>>>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing,
>>>>>>             
> that's
>   
>>>>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>>>>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
>>>>>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are
>>>>>>             
> wildly off,
>   
>>>>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>>>>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at
>>>>>>             
> 5
>   
>>>>>> degree differences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity
>>>>>>             
> to set
>   
>>>>>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat
>>>>>>             
> to
>   
>>>>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary
>>>>>>             
> compass with
>   
>>>>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting
>>>>>>             
> qualities of
>   
>>>>>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly --
>>>>>>             
> you
>   
>>>>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
>>>>>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>   
>>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>   From: "Bill Effros"
>>>>>>>   To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>>   Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Elle,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has
>>>>>>>               
> to
>   
>>>>>>>   deal
>>>>>>>   with similar problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped
>>>>>>>               
> using
>   
>>>>>>>   chain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies
>>>>>>>               
> there
>   
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   a
>>>>>>>   pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the
>>>>>>>               
> R-22
>   
>>>>>>>   anchor
>>>>>>>   locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor
>>>>>>>               
> dangling
>   
>>>>>>>   from
>>>>>>>   it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling
>>>>>>>               
> from
>   
>>>>>>>   it
>>>>>>>   on the other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If
>>>>>>>               
> you
>   
>>>>>>>   drop
>>>>>>>   a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom.
>>>>>>>               
> If
>   
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink
>>>>>>>               
> until
>   
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   hits the bottom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will
>>>>>>>               
> see no
>   
>>>>>>>   rope
>>>>>>>   on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom,
>>>>>>>               
> and
>   
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>>>>>>   deploying
>>>>>>>   the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off
>>>>>>>               
> the
>   
>>>>>>>   surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45
>>>>>>>               
> degrees.
>   
>>>>>>>   Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives
>>>>>>>               
> your
>   
>>>>>>>   boat,
>>>>>>>   and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and
>>>>>>>               
> you
>   
>>>>>>>   should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost
>>>>>>>               
> directly
>   
>>>>>>>   above it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and
>>>>>>>               
> "set"
>   
>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>   anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> anchor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   I
>>>>>>>   can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line
>>>>>>>               
> on the
>   
>>>>>>>   surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just
>>>>>>>               
> "dragging"
>   
>>>>>>>   it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   It's a lot like fishing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow
>>>>>>>               
> cleat.
>   
>>>>>>>   If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>>>>>>   experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to
>>>>>>>               
> bring
>   
>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>   sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all
>>>>>>>               
> rope
>   
>>>>>>>   rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the
>>>>>>>               
> kellet in
>   
>>>>>>>   order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I
>>>>>>>               
> would
>   
>>>>>>>   withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the
>>>>>>>               
> anchor in
>   
>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>   way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many
>>>>>>>               
> times
>   
>>>>>>>   before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when
>>>>>>>               
> it is
>   
>>>>>>>   permanently set.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and
>>>>>>>               
> it
>   
>>>>>>>   never
>>>>>>>   has.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>>>>>>   anchor
>>>>>>>   into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know
>>>>>>>               
> that
>   
>>>>>>>   mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know
>>>>>>>               
> how to
>   
>>>>>>>   use
>>>>>>>   a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions
>>>>>>>               
> is
>   
>>>>>>>   other
>>>>>>>   boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it
>>>>>>>               
> can
>   
>>>>>>>   easily
>>>>>>>   withstand the elements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   elle wrote:
>>>>>>>   > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>>>>>>   > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the
>>>>>>>               
> bottm
>   
>>>>>>>   > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>>>>>>   > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>>>>>>   > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   > Opinion?
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   > Thanks, elle
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust
>>>>>>>               
> our
>   
>>>>>>>   sails.
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   >> From: Bill Effros
>>>>>>>   >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>>   >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>   >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>>>>>>   >> Peter,
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>>>>>>   >> the size of the anchor?
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>>>>>>   >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less
>>>>>>>               
> than the
>   
>>>>>>>   >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>>>>>>   >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft
>>>>>>>               
> carrier.
>   
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> I've never tried it, though.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>>>>>>   >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>>>>>>   >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>>>>>>   >> dislodge until you get
>>>>>>>   >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on
>>>>>>>               
> my
>   
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>   >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>>>>>>   >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>>>>>>   (There are
>>>>>>>   >> hundreds.)
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>>>>>>   >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage
>>>>>>>               
> is
>   
>>>>>>>   from
>>>>>>>   >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet
>>>>>>>               
> swings on
>   
>>>>>>>   >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>>>>>>   >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous
>>>>>>>               
> stress
>   
>>>>>>>   on the
>>>>>>>   >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors
>>>>>>>               
> are
>   
>>>>>>>   just
>>>>>>>   >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the
>>>>>>>               
> least
>   
>>>>>>>   stress.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>>>>>>   >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom
>>>>>>>               
> anchor
>   
>>>>>>>   so I could
>>>>>>>   >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the
>>>>>>>               
> air, and
>   
>>>>>>>   sit on
>>>>>>>   >> the single mushroom.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>>>>>>   >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the
>>>>>>>               
> wind
>   
>>>>>>>   creates
>>>>>>>   >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical
>>>>>>>               
> stress
>   
>>>>>>>   on the
>>>>>>>   >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on
>>>>>>>               
> my bow
>   
>>>>>>>   >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I
>>>>>>>               
> have
>   
>>>>>>>   not had
>>>>>>>   >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind
>>>>>>>               
> damage
>   
>>>>>>>   >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one
>>>>>>>               
> into
>   
>>>>>>>   >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>>>>>>   >> in the water than it is on land.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> elle,
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> is the best hurricane
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> boats must leave their
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> Creek. It's about 15
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> bottom and then hard clay
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> engineering design at
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> our club.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> shift greatly during the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>>>>>>   >> Some anchors are very
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> at holding in mud,
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>>>>>>   >> But, if broken loose
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> Fortress will more
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> anchoring technique is
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>>>>>>   >> Other experienced storm
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> with our special
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> of the boat, the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> rode and chain.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> attach a Fortress or
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> quickly reset if the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> for the Fortress to
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> large), but I think the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> ground tackle.
>>>>>>>   >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> I just hauled her
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> But it think it's
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> wind gods send us.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> PT
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>   >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>   >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> Of elle
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>>>>>>   >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>>   >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> her head, we decided to
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> the creek...which is a
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> at about 45 deg off the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> comes with the boat &
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> 8-10' of chain.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> mechanism is in the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> have massive chafing if
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> then not be
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> head-to-wind.....
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> detritus..mainly
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> would not set w/all the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> as the CQR (my first
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> piling and the other
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> to a tree on shore.
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> elle
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> can adjust our sails.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> (Lady in Red)
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> wrote:
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>>   >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>>>>>   >>>> Paul,
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> times in
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under
>>>>>>>               
> "anchor
>   
>>>>>>>   >>>> locker" yielded:
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>   
>>>>>> 1565
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> 18
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>   
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>   
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>               
> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>   
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> Rubbermaid
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern
>>>>>>>               
> anchor,
>   
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> although I
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the
>>>>>>>               
> forward
>   
>>>>>>>   locker
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> for my bow
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck
>>>>>>>               
> cleat
>   
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> and pass
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> Mike
>>>>>>>   >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>>>>>   >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>>>>>   >>>> Sent:
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> Sunday,
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>>>>>   >>>> impractical way to store
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> hands to
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> get in there.
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> and
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> attaching it to the
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> when I
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> need to.
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> suggestion.
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> Paul K
>>>>>>>   >>>>> "Clarity"
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> using the
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
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>>>>>>>   >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >> the mailing
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>   >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >> mailing list go to
>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>   >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>>>   >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
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>>>>>>>   >> version of virus signature
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>>>>>>>   >>> database 3441 (20080915) __________
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>>>>>>>   >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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>>>>>>>   >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>               
> list
>   
>>>>>>>   > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>   > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>>   __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>   To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>               
> list go
>   
>>>>>>>   to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>   __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
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