[Rhodes22-list] anchoring
Luis Guzman
trpclman at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 17 10:54:46 EDT 2008
Art,
Could you provide a diagram/drawings of your setup?
Luis
S/V Miracle
----- Original Message ----
From: Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:41:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
Bill,
The attention on anchoring technique is valuable for all of us. You and I swapped an idea a few years ago, maybe valuable in this dialogue. I work from the cockpit, and want to avoid a necessity of moving to the foredeck during anchoring. The anchor line will terminate at the bow cleat, but I add a line (~25'), call it a 'set line', lighter than the anchor line, and fix it to a snatch block, through which the anchor line is eventually threaded. With anchor deployed and set from the stern, and the anchor line still held from the cockpit, I slip the snatch block over the anchor line. When I am ready to change anchoring orientation from stern to bow, I can slowly let out about 20' of the 'set line' until the bow turns into the wind. I can leave the snatch block in place, or unclip it from around the anchor line until I want to reverse the process and raise the anchor. It is obviously important that both anchor line and 'set line' are outside
the shrouds and cannot tangle!
on boat structure. This might be helpful to some.
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Sent: Sep 17, 2008 12:05 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>
>Andrew,
>
>I use the flukes and kite effect to my advantage when anchoring.
>
>I always anchor from the stern while slowly moving forward. I release
>the anchor, and allow the rode to go through my hands like a kite
>string. (I always wear gloves when sailing.) I provide a little bit of
>resistance. The anchor goes pretty much straight down. The floating
>rode follows it until the anchor hits bottom, at which point some of the
>line floats to the surface and is not taut.
>
>At this point I hold the line firmly. The line enters the water at a 45
>degree angle or less. The anchor sets -- I can feel it in my hands. I
>cleat off the line, and the boat stops moving. I move the line forward,
>turning the boat under my feet.
>
>You are right that the floating all rope road never hits the bottom
>before the anchor, and never fouls the flukes -- it is always pulled by
>the shank and is always positioned between the boat and the shank.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>Andrew Collins wrote:
>> Bill
>>
>> The danforth type with flukes can "kite " on the way down if dropped too
>> quickly. The one in question is a 7.5 lb fluke type from WM. The chain hits
>> the bottom before the anchor. While I always lower the anchor slowly and
>> let it set, and then pull by hand and or wind and or motor to check, the
>> chain has gotten stuck between the shank and one fluke once. When that
>> happens the anchor does not set. Upon pulling the anchor back up the
>> malfunction became visible. This is one more reason to lose the chain.
>>
>> I agree that the stretchy nylon type rodes are better shock absorbers than 6
>> foot of chain that came with this anchor.
>>
>> Andrew C
>> sv Carmen
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Elle,
>>>
>>> Floating rode never touches the bottom. It comes up completely clean.
>>> It is not scuffed, rubbed, chafed. I have never heard of rode parting
>>> under normal conditions, and certainly not from contact with the bottom.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> elle wrote:
>>>
>>>> My understanding that one of the major functions of the chain is to help
>>>>
>>> eliminate chafing and thereby weakening of the rode on rocks or whatever on
>>> the bottom.
>>>
>>>> elle
>>>>
>>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>>>>
>>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 12:58 PM
>>>>> Bill will continue to say this is nonsense, and I'm not
>>>>> going to say
>>>>> he's wrong. I AM going to say I think he's wrong.
>>>>> The coast guard
>>>>> captain's class I took went over this, and disagrees
>>>>> with him. Sometimes
>>>>> CG folks continue to do things based on
>>>>> "tradition", but I think in this
>>>>> case, they knew what they were teaching.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need chain if your anchor is so heavy you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> can't pull it up by hand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you need a windlass. The windlasses destroy rope
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> -- they work best
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> on chain. Everybody makes a lot of money by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> suggesting that you anchor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> better if you have a chain rode, but that is nonsense,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> and the enormous
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> weight of the chain in the bow totally throws off the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> balance of boats.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In the process, people start drawing diagrams and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> providing pseudo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> scientific explanations that make absolutely no sense
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> when you start to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> think about them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then somebody comes up with the 22 feet of chain on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the 22 foot boat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> rode rule. Which also makes absolutely no sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A modern anchor is not like a cinderblock or an engine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> block. It does
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> not just sit on the bottom, it digs in like a railroad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> spike, and is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> designed so it can be easily released by changing the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> angle of the rode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> from the surface. Adding weight does not help it in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> any way. Modern
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> anchors are designed to be pulled at specific angles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> -- mostly around
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 45 degrees -- which is what the 7:1 scope
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> accomplishes. Chain sitting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> on the bottom defeats the angle of the scope relative
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> to the anchor. It
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> is counter-productive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want more weight on your anchor, get a heavier
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> anchor. But there
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> is no need to do so. A 2 1/2 lb guardian anchor,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> properly set, will
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> hold you in place forever. Your rope rode will
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> withstand far more load
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> than the fittings on your boat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lowe, Rob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>> So why does everyone (well, most everyone) suggest
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> using chain on the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> rode? - rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:59 AM
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In order to set the anchor you must put tension on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> it. This pulls the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> rode taut. When there is no wind or current, the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> rode will lie flat on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the bottom, or float to the surface if it is a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> floating rode. But it is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> not holding the boat in place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What most people call "dragging the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> anchor" is usually "dragging the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> chain". If you fail to set your anchor --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> which you will fail to set
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> properly if you never draw the rode taut -- you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> can drag the chain all
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> over the place, without ever properly setting the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> anchor. If you draw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the rode taut and properly set the anchor it just
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> won't drag.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A very small anchor can be used to hold a very
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> large boat in place if
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the anchor is properly set. It is much easier to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> set an anchor with an
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> all rope rode. The chain portion of the rode does
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> not change the angle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> of pull.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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