[Rhodes22-list] anchoring

Thu Sep 18 09:55:05 EDT 2008

Bill, what size mushroom anchor do you carry?

Dave

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Peter,
>
> I am not messing around, and I am a storm anchorer.  I feel my boat is
> much safer on its anchor than it is on land, and I keep my boat on the
> water throughout hurricane season.  We have hurricanes here, too, and my
> boat has weathered many without incident.
>
> Elle,
>
> In answer to your original question, in fact I use a mushroom anchor in
> storm conditions and that is what I would recommend to everyone.  The
> inverted stem of the mushroom permits extremely short scope, and acts as
> a lever to reset the anchor in the extremely unlikely event that it
> would ever break free. The anchor is equally strong in 360 degrees --
> the boat should be able to freely swivel around it, always presenting
> the smallest face to the wind.  With a very short scope, there should be
> decreased danger from other boats who must anchor at greater distances
> from where yours will ever swing.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> Peter Thorn wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> I believe Bill is just "messing around".  He is mostly a lunch anchorer, not
>> a storm anchorer.
>>
>> PT
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ben
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:20 PM
>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>
>> I know I'm not going to convince you, but if you put out more than 1.5:1
>> scope, you're making your angle lower than 45 degrees.  If the rode is taut
>> and you have 6:1, the rode is going to pull up at about a 10 degree angle.
>> That's what you want for holding.
>>
>> True, it's probably overkill in lots of situations, but tides rise, wind and
>> currents change, etc.  Chain keeps that angle lower, so you get more holding
>> power from less rode.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:12 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Setting anchors has nothing to do with triangles -- I made reference to
>> a single angle.
>>
>> I am not suggesting short scope.  I set with very long scope utilizing a
>> 45 degree angle or less.  Because the surface of the water is
>> essentially parallel to the bottom, you can look at the angle at the
>> surface to understand the approximate angle of pull on the bottom.
>>
>> Like you, I have discovered the problem with properly set Danforth
>> anchors is releasing them, even when you are almost directly above them,
>> once they are properly set.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> PS -- The Standard Issue R-22 Anchor looks pretty, but is a lousy
>> anchor.  The cladding defeats the purpose of the flukes.  A Fortress
>> will exactly fit, but it rattles.  I always anchor from the stern,
>> anyhow, so I just leave my pretty blue anchor in place hoping someone
>> will steal it someday.  So far, no luck.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ben wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, Bill is wrong on this one.  Think about it.  45 degrees is
>>>
>> essentially
>>
>>> putting out 1.5 times as much rode as the depth you're anchoring in.
>>>
>> (Draw
>>
>>> it -- it's a right triangle with the anchor rode as the hypotenuse).
>>>
>>> I've never seen any article or source recommend less than 5:1 scope.
>>>
>>> But more importantly, I use the standard issue R22 danforth in mud all the
>>> time.  I overnight in gunkholes or bayous regularly in the spring and
>>>
>> fall,
>>
>>> and in summer, I drop the hook mid-lake so I have the boat as a big swim
>>> platform.  Everything you read is right.  The more rode I put out, the
>>> better it holds.  If I put out 10:1 or 12:1 -- which I sometimes do
>>> overnight if there's current or wind -- it's darn tough to pull out the
>>> anchor, even once I'm directly above it.  Many times, I've had to use the
>>> winch to break it out of the mud.
>>>
>>> Maybe other anchors and bottoms are different, but I'll go with the
>>> literature on this one, because I know it's correct.
>>>
>>> Ben S.
>>> R22 Velvet Elvis
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:02 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>
>>> At 11:52 PM 9/16/2008 -0400, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The point is that the anchor most of us use is designed to set by being
>>>> pulled at a 45 degree angle from the bottom.  If you pull it parallel to
>>>> the bottom it just stubs its flukes along and never sets properly.  And
>>>> if you have too much chain, you can never pull it at a 45 degree angle,
>>>> so it will never set at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Let me jump in and say I have to disagree with Bill here.  As I
>>> understand the physics of the Danforth-style anchors, they actually
>>> depend on a certain amount of horizontal (or parallell) movement to
>>> get the points of the flukes to dig in.  Here's why...
>>>
>>> With the flukes hinged at the back of the anchor and free to rotate
>>> about that axis, their mass, pulled downward by gravity, will have a
>>> natural tendency to rest directly on the points.  Consequently, an
>>> initial horizontal movement will naturally force the points downward
>>> and into the mud.  Pulling up on the rode at a 45-degree angle will,
>>> in fact, help defeat the design by not allowing the mass of the
>>> flukes to perform their downward deflection.
>>>
>>> The main reason a few feet of chain helps an anchor set is that the
>>> extra weight helps keep the initial movement of the anchor more
>>> horizontal, because the rode will begin to rise before the chain
>>> does.  This helps the flukes get their initial "traction".  Once the
>>> points dig in and force continues to be applied the rode and chain
>>> can rise and increase to the 45 degree angle that is ideal to finish
>>> and maintain the set.  It's those first few inches of movement that
>>> are critical to the set of the anchor.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> John Lock
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
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David Bradley
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