[Rhodes22-list] - FYI - might be a mistake here
John Lock
jlock at relevantarts.com
Mon Aug 3 04:31:49 EDT 2009
FYI to everyone - Deena unsubscribed shortly after sending her
message. She will not see your replies and comments unless you send
them directly to her e-mail address.
Cheers!
John Lock
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
Lake Sinclair, GA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Aug 2, 2009, at 20:29, michael meltzer wrote:
> Deena, it had nothing to do with your actions, you are doing fine as
> a new member and I know you were only being helpful, your motivation
> was pure. As you pointed out you walked in the middle and
> unbeknownst got caught in the "middle of a knife fight". As is
> sometime the best policy in a bar room fight "just duck under a
> table and keep your head down" and let it pass over you. You are
> doing a great job and keep on posting.
>
> We are sailor on this list: not always "pure and sweet", sometimes
> do not play nice, look the best and have been known to use boat
> hooks on each other. On the other hand generally when we wake up the
> next day and the massive hangover is gone and have cleaned up the
> blood we still remain friends................
>
> -mjm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> ] On Behalf Of captainpy at comcast.net
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:08 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] might be a mistake here
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I made a mistake interpretting some of the comments here when I
> joined the list. Most of the subjects were already in progress
> when I arived. I thought you guys were all working with Stan coming
> up with ideas to help him. My thoughts and comments about
> promotions and pricing where only general practices from years ago
> as a store manager brought up only to help you all. I DO NOT DO OR
> PROMOTE ANY BUSINESS HERE! I am not interested in making any
> money or commssions off any product to take away from you or general
> boats. I thought this was a rhodes forum and based on the comments
> already here thought I had something to contribute. The dig "like
> Deena" and "was like Deena" inaddition to the false accusations
> directed at me are uncalled for.
>
> Deena
>
>
>
>
>
> From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 9:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1935, Issue 1
>
> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: That didn't work either. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
> 2. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (Rick)
> 3. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (John Lock)
> 4. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (John Lock)
> 5. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (Claude Cox)
> 6. Re: ok michael has had enough, was Like Deena, did you say
> Price? (michael meltzer)
> 7. AC panel location? (Ron Singerman)
> 8. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
> 9. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:16:01 EDT
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] That didn't work either.
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <d4a.533db259.37a60a91 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Ron,
> You must be on the corporate sales side of the company.
>
> R
>
>
> In a message dated 8/1/2009 2:50:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> sail at tds.net writes:
>
> Rummy or another good samaritan,
>
> Being computer challanged, could you be so kind as to take me
> through the
> steps to be able to order something with the Rhodes logo? I've been
> trying
> for a half hour with no results. Thanks...
>
> Fair winds,
>>> ron<<
> S/V Serenity
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:42 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] That didn't work either.
>
>
>> I will just attache the info to this email:
>>
>>
>> Lands End Corporate Sales
>> JTonjes
>> Tennant: (password)
>> My middle name: William
>> Customer number: 3353184
>> Company Name: Current Technologies
>> Logo Number: 9955367 w
>> Stitches: 6796
>> Contact Person: John Tonjes
>> 1800-338-2000
>> 1800-965-3329 Fax
>> www.landsend.com/corpsales
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>> just 2
>> easy
>> steps!
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/prom
> oclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>> go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
> 2 easy
> steps!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:08:46 -0400
> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID:
> <52e9a140908011508r7c068a67l68a9f9aa5043fb09 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Rummy,
>
> What's that yellow thing in the background?
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>> They have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>> got some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>> just 2 easy
>> steps!
>> (
>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd%0A=JulystepsfooterNO115
>> >
>> )
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url :
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21dec4a3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:48:55 -0400
> From: John Lock <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <3B7981A0-4D1F-49EE-A53B-2D141B357BBC at relevantarts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> A large planter used for decorative flowers and plantings.
>
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2009, at 18:08, Rick wrote:
>> Rummy,
>>
>> What's that yellow thing in the background?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>>> They have
>>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>>> got some
>>> revenge.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>>> just 2 easy
>>> steps!
>>> (
>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>>> =JulystepsfooterNO115<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd%0A=JulystepsfooterNO115
>>>>
>>> )
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> Url :
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21dec4a3/attachment.jpg
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>> to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:50:52 -0400
> From: John Lock <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <B3240E1A-59CC-4E9E-ABCF-CF7E57BBF972 at relevantarts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Ya know... there are some folks in your neighborhood who would say
> that the fox was doing you a favor.
>
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> On Aug 1, 2009, at 12:18, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>> They have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>> got some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
>> 2 easy
>> steps!
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url : http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21dec4a3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:29:30 -0400
> From: "Claude Cox" <ccc974 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <001801ca1319$145e3970$0202a8c0 at DBMCXV81>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> you going to mount the head?
> claude
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:18 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
>
>
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>> They
>> have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>> got some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>> just 2
>> easy
>> steps!
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url :
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21dec4a3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:05:36 -0400
> From: "michael meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ok michael has had enough, was Like
> Deena, did you say Price?
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <037301ca132e$def65770$9ce30650$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Art it is time to simply stop. Stop Now.
>
> I never have had to get on someone's case about using this list for
> commercial uses, until his time.
>
> * you notice that stan does NOT soloatied on this list. And show
> good taste about it when he does post
> * you notice that there is no spam on the list, the filter kill
> about 40 commercial posts a day, a good chuck from "other boat Things"
> * Ric has been moving Graphics for years but you never know it
> unless you ask him.
> * people sell boat have been doing for years, but it "one post".
> * when Bill and Pamela opened their canvas shop they never soloatied
> on the list.
>
> All the above examples have shown good taste about it, Art you are
> way over the line. Stop any posts about your commercial venture.
> Please answer any normal list traffic(including specialized
> questions about canvas) but unless it a direct question "Art can you
> make this for me", I real do not what to hear about boat canvas work
> you are doing or looking like you are "back handing" the question
> that you can generate work. (that includes privately taking people
> email address and pumping them, they MUST approach you first)
>
> Sorry to be so direct, but you simply do not get the scuttle
> message. Open a loft at your local marine, pay for show space, place
> fliers all over the place, make a "YouTube" with a vial message,
> think outside the box all you what. But unless you want to start
> paying me and John (10-20% of the gross for marketing sounds right.
> You have no god given right to market here. If you done right by
> people let them recommend you. But not you pushing it!!!!!!!!
>
> On a slightly different subject, Like Others have noted, Stan has
> declined your help and I cannot think other than you like insulting
> him by your actions or I go back you my original premious that "you
> simple do not get it and this is a charter flaw" (which is supported
> by people who meet you), Sorry that you have this problem. If it
> make you feel any better spelling has been my lifelong problem.
>
>
> -mjm
>
> -PS I do not need any reply or any "justification" just simple stop
> it and control your actions, You have been good with boating advice
> and helpful but by the same token you also know how I will play it
> if pushed any farther.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> ] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Like Deena, did you say Price?
>
> Deena,
>
> Please help me understand. Who has lowered what price on what?
>
> If you refer to some lower price I can sell for, I have to establish
> costing on what is possible. I never established the Boomroom at
> $1,500 based, for example, on Stan's previous price of ~$2,000. My
> gosh, that was my mission from our skippers, they were screaming
> about the cost, and I responded with better solutions over a three
> month period in the Winter of '06. Dave Bradley can relate the
> endless emails we exchanged to get it just like the fleet wanted
> it! Back then I actually charged Dave 1,100, not the current price,
> and additionally travelled to Conn to help install it, mileage costs
> only. Not a shabby commitment, not at all. I recall that even Stan
> was happy then. I will always meet or exceed your expectations, to
> quote Steven Covey.
>
> I think it unfair to our skippers if I were to set any product cost
> based on $100 or $200 or $500 below some competitor offering. I
> just will not do it! It is mandatory that my quality be the best
> available, and that will be the only and certain result, not just
> some fuzzy target. Among my fleetmates there is no doubt that I
> have committed to quality canvas products.
>
> Now, back to the bimini project. Call me on the phone at any point,
> 404 295-7777.
>
> Have a nice week. BTW, did your husband ever cross paths with "the
> Brute" when he was on active duty?
>
> R,
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: captainpy at comcast.net
>> Sent: Aug 1, 2009 7:19 AM
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Promos
>>
>>
>>
>> Art,
>>
>> I like the idea of the pens the best. They wouldn't be as
>> expensive to obtain, and are to maintain a supply and restock as
>> needed. At the same time it wouldn't give the appearance of a
>> diminished product. Having been a retail store manager years ago I
>> am a firm believer in not reducing the price of a high quality
>> product. People tended then not to purchase it and would many
>> times wait until they thought it might go on sale. They also felt
>> if you lowered the price maybe it wasn't so great after all. I
>> just got my assessment from our association. They sent everyone a
>> letter informing us they were raising our yearly fee 5% due to the
>> economy. We also got a price hike with our utilities. My husband
>> did not get a 5% raise to keep up with the pace. Alot of people
>> just are cutting back. My Rhodes is kept at the quantico marina.
>> We don't see very many people going out on their motor boats this
>> year.
>>
>>
>>
>> Deena
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:41:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1933, Issue 4
>>
>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway (Leland)
>> 2. Re: Rhodes Promotions (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
>> 3. Re: Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway (Hank)
>> 4. Re: Rhodes Crew Gear (BenCittadino)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Message-ID: <24764138.post at talk.nabble.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Everything I've read indicates that you are right. Many of the
>> times that
>> I've measured the effects of the centerboard I've noticed more than
>> a ten
>> degree improvement into the wind. However, every time I put the
>> board down
>> I slow down. Every time I raise the board I speed up.
>>
>> Hopefully this picture will come through:
>>
>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p24764138/Sail%2BSpeed.ppt Sail+Speed.ppt
>>
>> Let's assume you're sailing from point A to B with the board up.
>> Doesn't
>> matter how much you drift because you're still going from point A
>> to B. If
>> you put the board down you can sail more into the wind and you are
>> able to
>> sail from point A to C. To get to point B you would then need to
>> sail from
>> point C to A. Even if you weren't sailing slower with the board
>> down,
>> wouldn't it take you longer to go from point A to C to B than sailing
>> directly from point A to B?
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> Unless I want to go more into the wind, it still seems like the
>> best reason
>> to put the board down is to knock the barnacles off.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>> Yesterday I got the chance to sail in 5-10 kt wind and relatively
>> flat
>> water. I set the boat up on a beam reach (apparent wind 90
>> degreees). The
>> course was was 060 M by my steering compass. We were able to do
>> about
>> .5 - 4 kts SOG by the GPS.
>>
>> With the board down our COG (Course over ground) was 055-057 M
>> With the board up out COG was 045-048 M
>>
>> Although my steering compass is not compensated and thus has unknown
>> deviation, since it was held steady at 060 the deviation has no
>> importance
>> here. Lowering the board reduced leeway by about 10 degrees.
>> Lowering the
>> board had no observed effect on SOG although wind variation could
>> have
>> hidden a small effect. Based on these results I see no reason to
>> sail with
>> the board up unless in very thin water and one very good reason to
>> sail with
>> it down.
>>
>> David Walker
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24764138.html
>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:03:21 EDT
>> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Message-ID: <c60.4aa50792.37a4e049 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>>
>> Yes, they still have the logo. I have the information on a different
>> computer. I will send it to you later.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/30/2009 9:22:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> mjm at michaelmeltzer.com writes:
>>
>> Is the rhodes22 logo still on file with lands end? Rummy you
>> remember or
>> one else?
>>
>> -mjm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
>> Czerwonky
>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:23 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>
>> Deena,
>>
>> Do you think an inscribed ball point, one worth keeping and using,
>> would
>> make sense? We just need to 'blue sky' this show...
>>
>> I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of actual
>> sailcloth and
>> was embroidered. Really quality you wouldn't pitch in file 13.
>> Maybe an
>> embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece (of hull) as a
>> hanger.
>> There must be soms scrap around the GB facility. " You have a
>> small part of
>> the boat, we can deliver the rest in a few months." Let's stretch
>> our
>> imagination over Stan (SOS)!
>>
>> Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>> Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stan!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my
>>> Rhodes" )On one
>> side a picture and on the other GB's web address?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Deena AKA Captain Py
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>>> Eastern
>>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>
>>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions (Jim Connolly)
>>> 2. Re: Fw: general boat's dilema (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 4. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 5. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lou Rosenberg)
>>> 6. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>> (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe, Rob)
>>> 8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400
>>> From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control
>>> solutions
>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> I had hornets and wasps in the coaming right before launch, so I
>>> needed a
>>> fast solution.
>>>
>>> I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint oil
>>> ("poison
>>> free" from Victor Pest Control). It took a whole can, but seemed
>>> to
>> work.
>>> The smell repelled or confused returning wasps, and those that
>>> were home
>>> when I sprayed (at least some of them) died.
>>>
>>> Jim Connolly
>>> s/v Inisheer
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM
>>> To: Rhodes 22
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>
>>> Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people
>>> responded too
>>> with helpful suggestions. Here's what my results were -
>>>
>>> 1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially masthead fly)
>> Solution -
>>> WD40. I had the mast down early this spring to fix several things.
>> Before
>>> raising again, I sprayed WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex,
>>> VHF
>>> antenna, and diamond stays. So far (5 months
>>> later) not a single web! Still get them down lower where I
>>> didn't spray,
>> so
>>> we know the spiders are still there. But they don't want to (or
>>> can't)
>>> start webs on the WD40 treated portion.
>>>
>>> 2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under the cockpit coaming
>> Solution -
>>> clothes drier sheets. Middle of last summer I stapled a bunch of
>>> drier
>>> sheets into the wood backing up under the coaming on both sides.
>>> No wasp
>>> nests have appeared in almost a year now. I see some more wasp
>>> activity
>>> now, so I suspect it's time to renew the sheets. But that's a
>>> cheap and
>>> effective control.
>>>
>>> Now if only I could figure out what to do about the ants coming
>>> aboard
>> from
>>> shore....
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>> John Lock
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>> go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>> <16092871.1248874303875.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net
>> >
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Welcome aboard the list and your involvement. This fleet is
>>> strong for
>> the mix of its skippers as well an exceptional boat. If you can
>> come to the
>> show you'll have a rather rare opportunity to meet many of them as
>> we have
>> a get-together in a nearby restaurant, I can't remember what day
>> that will
>> be this year - maybe we should take a poll. C'mon down and
>> enjoy! You
>> will also see one of the most exceptional sailboat displays in the
>> country.
>> Lee may have a handle on what is cooking locally, or Mary Lou and
>> Fred may
>> know. We have alot of skippers in the North Chesapeake environs,
>> let's
>> show the flag. BTW, is there an R22 burgee?
>>>
>>> Another option we could use in helping GB is to followup on
>>> inquiries on
>> the Rhodes from shows, calls, or curious prospects we may meet as
>> our
>> marinas. If local owners are informed about such prospects from
>> Stan or other
>> owners, they could be invited out on a sail or into a conversation
>> about our
>> boat, maybe about their boat and/or sailing interests. We get
>> random
>> requests from wannabes, maybe a more proactive initiative on our
>> part, done
>> tastefully, would develop into prospects for Stan. He can suggest
>> names,
>> approach, interests selectively to get the ball/tide rolling. A
>> passive
>> approach will not enhance sales prospects for GB.
>>>
>>> I share your past interest in the Mariner (#1607) and the O'Day
>>> boats
>> (222). I haven't seen much racing interest in our skippers, but
>> welcome
>> correction if it is due. Involvement in the racing is alot of
>> fun. Stan
>> suggested a strictly racing R22 a few years ago, maybe to be
>> revived. Are you
>> IMF (probably) or Conventional? What size Genny? Have you raced
>> out of
>> Brant Beach, or is it mostly a cruising venue? Which motor have
>> you preferred?
>>
>>>
>>> We welcome your involvement, John, and look forward to your reply.
>>>
>>> Art
>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>> Hartwell and St Pete
>>>
>>>
>>> --Original Message-----
>>>> From: John <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>> Sent: Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John" <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have submitted one or two messages to the list, but would
>>>>> like to get
>>>>> more involved. I purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago.
>>>>> I have
>> raced
>>>>> Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat
>>>>> that I
>> enjoy
>>>>> more than this one. Heaven forbid General Boats has problems.
>>>>> There
>> is no
>>>>> owner loyalty, or construction quality (or--even more
>> important--customer
>>>>> service) that compares with this company. While I probably
>>>>> cannot
>> attend
>>>>> the Annapolis Show, I need to know what I (and other loyal
>>>>> owners) can
>> do
>>>>> to keep this company strong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been amazed at the discussions on this list (with the
>>>>> exception
>> of
>>>>> the political issues regarding the last election). My
>>>>> goodness, where
>>>>> else can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> problems I have on the boat. I do not call a customer service
>>>>> number
>> that
>>>>> keeps me on hold for hours--I talk to the owner of the company!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not get involved in discussions regarding royalties, but
>>>>> do
>> think
>>>>> that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40, and I am happier
>>>>> with
>> this
>>>>> boat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer suggestions
>>>>> about
>> other
>>>>> members issues and questions. What better support canone get
>>>>> than
>> this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant
>> Beach,
>>>>> New Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the area.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Rick" <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> $1.97
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good idea, buddy! Somehow to add a unique personal touch. I
>>>>>>> would
>> add,
>>>>>>> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance on table
>>>>>>> tops
>> at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Annapolis show. Fred, Pleassse!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in shoestring mode,
>>>>>>> what
>> about
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> Hanes T-shirt, and of course, hospitality hot dogs with lots
>>>>>>> of
>> mustard
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> relish. Seriously, I embroidered some nice looking T-shirts
>>>>>>> for the
>> '07
>>>>>>> show, different color each day, some were 'Name, and
>>>>>>> rhodes22.com',
>> and
>>>>>>> some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section
>>>>>>> above
>> the
>>>>>>> other. They were noticed by our visitors, never a comment or
>> compliment
>>>>>>> otherwise. You might have to get used to it... rhoadies are
>>>>>>> tough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use. At least it
>>>>>>> engages the
>>>>>>> imagination of the smart cookies in our magnificent Rhodes
>>>>>>> fleet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No commissions or royalty this time either, guys. What do you
>> charge,
>>>>>>> Rick?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM
>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Art,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using owners at shows sounds like a good idea. Carver has
>>>>>>>> success
>> with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> at the Cleveland show, dressing everyone up the same way in
>>>>>>>> blue
>>>>>>>> blazers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I doubt any mass media advertising would have payback.
>>>>>>>> Since all
>> the
>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>> sailing magazines have been pushing for so long the Catalina
>>>>>>>> wave
>> that
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a GBI ad would be
>>>>>>>> swamped.
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>> direct mail to long-time owners on state and Coast Guard
>>>>>>>> sailboat
>>>>>>>> registration lists, pushing the R22 as a quality downsize
>>>>>>>> option?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John, Rob,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You may recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version,
>>>>>>>>> call
>> it a
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>>>> model, on the list a few years ago, and although I expressed
>> interest
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> this new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further
>> information
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> provided to my knowledge. Back at that time Stan expressed
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us
>> more
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> what he had in mind. I still am interested, speaking for
>>>>>>>>> myself
>> as a
>>>>>>>>> potential buyer. I will watch for any response. Did
>>>>>>>>> anyone get
>>>>>>> detailed
>>>>>>>>> information on this boat?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have suggested the value of baseline ad exposure. If
>>>>>>>>> nothing
>> else,
>>>>>>>>> targeted reinforcement to the boat show displays that are so
>>>>>>>>> important.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe followup visits by experienced skippers. I have been
>>>>>>>>> told
>> by
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> our newer skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard
>>>>>>>>> Mary Jane
>> at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> '07
>>>>>>>>> show tipped the sale toward his boat purchase with him and
>>>>>>>>> his
>> wife.
>>>>>>> BTW,
>>>>>>>>> no commission provided or requested. The presence of
>>>>>>>>> skippers at
>> the
>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>>>> is valuable - a third party evaluation of their own boat, and
>> with
>>>>>>>>> 'no
>>>>>>> axe
>>>>>>>>> to grind'. Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as
>>>>>>>>> I did
>>
>>>>>>>>> twice.
>>>>>>>>> You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a
>> huge
>>>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> other boat makers reach their customers. Our skippers who
>>>>>>>>> are so
>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>> give demos, whether at shows or not, are such valuable
>> ambassadors
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> GB.
>>>>>>>>> Having done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as
>> being
>>>>>>>>> productive. Try it, you'll like it! Let's be specific - Can
>> some of
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> skipper demos at Annapoli!
>>>>>>>>> s or St Pete or elsewhere?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cutting to the chase, who has some real connections to
>>>>>>>>> options
>> and
>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>> /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out
>>>>>>>>> of
>> this
>>>>>>> 'black
>>>>>>>>> hole' that the company appears to be in? It could be just
>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>>>> levers to pull that would enable better results, even in our
>> current
>>>>>>> puuuny
>>>>>>>>> economy. Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to
>>>>>>> prospects/suspects
>>>>>>>>> that could tip the scales, one by one. Time to get the
>>>>>>>>> horses
>> out
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> barn, guys.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like Mark Twain or someone else once said, let's get the P
>>>>>>>>> in our
>>>>>>>>> Pot!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep that pretty much covers it. Now what would the price
>>>>>>>>>> point
>> be
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> boat? I have the origional literature that came with my 71
>>>>>>>>>> and
>> you
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> see that show package special price!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rob Lowe wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy
>>>>>>>>>>> motor
>>>>>>>>>>> lift,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> re-model the interior? Now you have my 1976 boat! I do
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> battery
>>>>>>>>>>> though. - rob
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> Shulick
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see
>>>>>>>>>>> Davids
>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch
>> the
>>>>>>> head,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> on board water tank, the batteries, the fancy motor lift,
>> re-model
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> interior and selling it as a "sport model" My wife and I
>>>>>>>>>>> live
>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>>>>>> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights
>>>>>>> sufficient.
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a
>> first
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>>> floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> had
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a
>> macgregor
>>>>>>>>>>> 26
>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>> it like a no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their
>>>>>>>>>>> father to
>> make
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> mac
>>>>>>>>>>> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more fun than Cruiser/Racer.
>>>>>>>>>>> Even
>> if
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> racing its fun to be faster.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Respectfully submitted,
>>>>>>>>>>> John Shulick
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rick-139 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hate to be the wet blanket again. But racing
>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboats is
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'nother
>>>>>>>>>>>> market. The key to convincing a customer to buy a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboat
>> for
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> convince him or her that they will have lots of other
>> sailboats
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> race
>>>>>>>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the one design game, it involves high volume production
>> and a
>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution system that can execute geographically
>> concentrated
>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lakes
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> J 22 and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a
>>>>>>>>>>>> respectable
>>
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining one design integrity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, there's always PHRF racing. But how many 20
>>>>>>>>>>>> - 25
>> foot
>>>>>>>>>>> cruising
>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboat owners are left with an interest in racing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike 30 years ago, most people today who buy cruising or
>> day
>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the low 20's length are first timers. From there, they
>> either
>>>>>>> drop
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising,
>> racing or
>>>>>>>>>>> both.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Catalina and Hunter have turned the market into that by
>> making
>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>>>>>>> boats people can easily abandon for yachts. Stan's main
>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>> has a product that goes against the prevailing mindset
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> evolved
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> his market.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in
>> August
>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sailing? The title itself is a reflection of that
>>>>>>>>>>>> mindset.
>> And
>>>>>>>>>>> despite
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with:
>> "More
>>>>>>>>>>> important,
>>>>>>>>>>>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?" That's
>> some
>>>>>>> insult
>>>>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>>>>>> builder who has admirably supported his product for
>>>>>>>>>>>> decades.
>> But
>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's part of the same mindset.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who
>> built
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most places and expect a response. That's probably worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part. I
>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm
>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> suggesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone
>> participates
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing new
>> owners for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loyalty/royalty. The 5% on the seller side will figure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a
>>>>>>> royalty/loyalty
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> front for two years. Then, continued association
>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> require
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the annual dues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then were
>> asked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> send a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee to the factory. Nobody would... but this is not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ford
>> or
>>>>>>> Chevy.
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure some type of ongoing support is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> good owner support and parts availability. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> along and hits my rudder in the slip and I need a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one,
>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> ought to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a spare waiting at the factory to ship out. If someone
>> blows a
>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be one ready to ship and the right color
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too.
>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean overhead
>> and I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry. Maybe parts
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> non-members
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ought to carry a premium that members don't have to pay-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> added
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incentive to be one of the family.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear what you are saying about the market. Long term,
>> owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be the ones to keep GBI afloat. You have got to
>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the door. There have been a lot of good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of experienced people on the list. My experiences with
>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses are that we are very happy to take your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money but
>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your advice to yourself. However, Stan seems open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to know
>> about it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has mentioned. A new boat is becoming cost prohibitive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recycling is a good second market but I think you need a
>> "less
>>>>>>>>>>> frills"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> model
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get younger couples through the doors. You would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>> be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point and I don't know if that is possible. I thought
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> stripped
>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> racing version might be a solution. Racers don't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>> down
>>>>>>>>>>> below
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will pay for quality above. The Rhodes is faster then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catalina
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can
>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> home
>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequently
>>>>>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things from Stan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive
>> offering in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spare parts are readily available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp
>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>> that
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factory;
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factory is even still in business that is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program
>> concerning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience in boat ownership over the years is that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchaser
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always spends the maximum funds set aside for the
>> purchase.
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>>>>> And we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know that used boats need something all the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> owner 5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the
>> top of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list
>> either
>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale
>> whereby
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> promptly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list and complete the transaction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> $
>>>>>>> 200.00
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical
>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received as a member of the list from the owners and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the
>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I propose and this will make some people on this list
>> unhappy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.
>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> annual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have got to provide something however. Which is
>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something for their money. In this case, for the annual
>>>>>>>>>>> association
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admission to the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Technical support either from members or the factory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kept
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> date
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already. Maybe you could come up with some member
>> specials on
>>>>>>>>>>> pricing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional
>> article
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members would get. I don't want to burden you with a
>> bunch of
>>>>>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but there needs to be something unique about membership.
>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new owner would feel they are getting something and it
>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> generate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership,
>>>>>>>>>>> if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell,
>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate
>> sell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a
>> "loyalty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee",
>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably to the list members who have taken their time
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>> GBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5%
>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> gets my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The other situation which started the discussion in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with after-market products or other parts unique to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has an after-market item to sell to the list which is
>> unique
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale,
>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he/she
>>>>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through you. They can advertise it and discuss it;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>> buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after you have added your mark up or it cannot be
>> advertised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list by another member or by a third party. Simple as
>> that.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to
>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obviously,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list membership information is kept proprietary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct
>>>>>>>>>>>>> marketing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your
>> back...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> care of that. If something comes up for sale on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open-market
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whomever
>>>>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those duties gets their membership free.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement
>> and if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> is of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest, let us know what you think the annual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership
>> fee
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just
>> keep in
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose is here. Trying to come up with something
>> palatable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and us in the long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically"
>> one of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.
>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More
>> timely
>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of
>> used
>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever
>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles
>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a
>> racer
>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you come up with something without having to have new
>>>>>>>>>>> molds-marketed as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a
>> standard
>>>>>>> mast
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "sport
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model"
>>>>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted
>> around. dc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the
>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We want to thank those that take issue with our position
>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exhibits
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of
>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> remain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silent - in our younger days we probably would have done
>> the
>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of
>> "never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again"
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> took
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a
>> station
>>>>>>> wagon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corporation
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all
>> these
>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>>>>> se
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actions simply because we do not complain unless the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facts
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> logic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solidly on our side - but we digress.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, in particular, we want to thank those who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> side
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of our position and offered suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its
>> reasoning
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those
>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just
>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many
>> segments of
>>>>>>>>>>> industry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have already worked out such support programs, yet these
>>>>>>> dissenters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
>>>>>>> industries
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but to request and we will expand on the good sense of
>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You
>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
>> family,
>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light and converting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
>>>>>>> resolved,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallowed
>>>>>>>>>>> halls
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not
>> stand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> ethics
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it
>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-ordained;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.
>> And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we
>> made the
>>>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of
>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fervor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opponents.)
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the
>> profitable
>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>> side
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GB's business::
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>> buy
>>>>>>> sails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's
>> creation at
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
>>>>>>> Stamford,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tough
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners
>> but
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has
>> latched
>>>>>>> onto.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who
>> purchase
>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unique
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or
>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fail
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> honor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retaliatory
>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution, but it is a solution. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We could simply close shop and that would close the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unauthorized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>>>> cash
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List members in this particular complaint of GB vs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Art C,
>> we
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposals that we will present to the List next week for
>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so
>> overwhelming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
>>>>>>>>>>> 048p24697834.html
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24700483.html
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>> mailing list
>> go
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>> list
>> go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>> list go
>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>> list go
>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>> list go
>> to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:43:04 -0400
>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <1BA7BBD3036947F289B013E52D813110 at rhodes>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>
>>> John Shulick,
>>>
>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not
>>> ignore the
>> good
>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>> do know
>> I
>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>> through
>> as
>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>
>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>> please
>> do
>>> not feel slighted because
>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>> the list.
>>>
>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before
>>> my time)
>> and
>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>> wanting to
>> put a
>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>> built by
>> us) I
>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>> advice
>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>> since the
>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>
>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>> got was
>> not
>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>> whole boat
>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>> send
>> back
>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>
>>> ss
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>> complex
>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>> shure
>>>> whether
>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>> what the
>>>> price
>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>> posts I
>>>> place
>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>> through
>>>> him.
>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>> about
>> some
>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>> tiller
>> for
>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>> usable)
>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>> small
>> parts
>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>> for my
>> mast
>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this
>>>> week as
>> part
>>>> of
>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>> equivilent) ,
>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me
>>>> and by
>> the
>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>> more.
>> I
>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>> complete set
>> of
>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>> parts and
>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>> them as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> John S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John;
>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>> as
>> "the
>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but
>>>> add on an
>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>> when
>> they
>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much
>>>> less
>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>> building
>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>
>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>> without
>>>> losing
>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:10 -0400
>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <1D4BA299E8024EB6A63F0999A9BD8ED3 at rhodes>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> even my typing is getting sloppy -
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not
>>>> ignore the
>>>> good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and
>>>> I do
>> know
>>>> I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>> through
>>>> as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please
>> do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>>> the
>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>> time)
>>>> and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>>> wanting to
>> put
>>>> a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>>> built by
>> us)
>>>> I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with
>>>> the
>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>>> since the
>>
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got
>> was
>>>> not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole
>> boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did
>>>> you send
>>>> back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>>> shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>>> what the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>>> posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about
>>>>> some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller
>> for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder
>>>>> (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small
>> parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>>> for my
>>>>> mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this
>>>>> week as
>> part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>> equivilent)
>>>>> ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me
>>>>> and by
>> the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose
>>>>> $2,000 more.
>> I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete
>> set
>>>>> of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>>> parts and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them
>> as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique
>>>>> known as
>> "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but
>>>>> add on
>> an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our
>>>>> butts when
>>>>> they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was
>>>>> color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that
>>>>> much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>>> without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>> list go to
>>
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:11:31 -0400
>>> From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <8ADB74E6-CF8C-4B63-B1BE-199E3A0F2676 at nyu.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>> format=flowed
>>>
>>> Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>> I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>> the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>> a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>> year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>> I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton
>>> have
>>> helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
>>> rigging
>>> and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently
>>> Elton
>>> brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>> to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>
>>> In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>> but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>> waited and I may've found
>>> a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there
>>> are
>>> rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>> ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>
>>> I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>> out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in
>>> terms
>>> of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>> and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>> the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill
>>> Basin
>>> all winter long.
>>>
>>> wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>
>>> Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>> some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>
>>> all the best
>>> and thanks for all your help
>>>
>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>> s/v Miracles
>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>> the good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>> do know I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>> through as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>>> the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>> time) and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>>> wanting
>>>> to put a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>>> built
>>>> by us) I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with
>>>> the
>>>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>>> since
>>>> the
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got was not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>> send back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>>> shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>>> what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>>> posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder
>>>>> (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>>> for
>>>>> my mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>> as part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>> by the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more. I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete set of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>>> parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>> as "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>> on an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>> when they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was
>>>>> color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that
>>>>> much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>>> without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>> Videographer
>>>
>>> Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>> Human Development at NYU
>>>
>>> 239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>> lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>
>>> (212) 998-5122
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>> <25945721.1248879868382.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net
>> >
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Lou,
>>>
>>> My guess is retirement in 10-15 years, although I marvel at his,
>>> Rose's,
>> and Elton's energy in this business arena. The composite support
>> effort I
>> have seen by Rhoadies to help other fleet skippers is incredible,
>> and will
>> become even more vital in the years ahead. As parts and
>> accessories may
>> become less available, I, for one, have been keeping my eye out for
>> alternatives. As I discovered a year ago, the spreader brackets
>> are available from
>> Dwyer (I'd keep a close eye on your's if they become distorted
>> with mast
>> stepping using the old GB method). The alternative transom
>> crutch I use
>> and posted can be fabricated by a SS shop I have done work with.
>>>
>>> I have been told that replacement parts is one of the greatest
>>> concerns
>> of fleet skippers if we cannot obtain from GB, a problem I
>> encountered as
>> long as two years ago. I have usually been able to find a
>> substitute as
>> necessary. Maybe we can delay Stan's retirement until 20 years!
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>> Sent: Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>>> fairness
>>>>
>>>> Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>
>>>> I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>> the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>> a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for
>>>> about a
>>>> year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>> I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton
>>>> have
>>>> helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
>>>> rigging
>>
>>>> and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently
>>>> Elton
>>>> brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler
>>>> assembly
>>>> to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>
>>>> In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>> but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I
>>>> should've
>>>> waited and I may've found
>>>> a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but
>>>> there are
>>>> rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>> ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>
>>>> I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>> out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in
>>>> terms
>>>> of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>> and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest
>>>> of
>>>> the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill
>>>> Basin
>>>> all winter long.
>>>>
>>>> wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>
>>>> Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to
>>>> accept
>>>> some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>
>>>> all the best
>>>> and thanks for all your help
>>>>
>>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>>> s/v Miracles
>>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not
>>>>> ignore
>>>>> the good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>> do know I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>> please do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>>>> the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before
>>>>> my
>>>>> time) and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> to put a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>>>> built
>>>>> by us) I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with
>>>>> the
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>>>> since
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>> got was not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>> whole boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>> send back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>>>> shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>>>> posts I
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>> about some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder
>>>>>> (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this
>>>>>> week
>>>>>> as part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>>>> parts
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>> them as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but
>>>>>> add
>>>>>> on an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was
>>>>>> color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that
>>>>>> much less
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>> list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>>> Videographer
>>>>
>>>> Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>> Human Development at NYU
>>>>
>>>> 239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>> lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>
>>>> (212) 998-5122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:27 -0400
>>> From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02B8B38D at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu
>>> >
>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Lou,
>>> Good luck to you! It's been fun following along with your trials
>>> and
>>> progress over the years. I could have done what you have done,
>>> I'm glad
>>> my '76 was sailable from day one.
>>>
>>> Now where is Mill Basin and Rockaway Inlet exactly? I'm hunting on
>>> yahoo maps and you're in the New York area?? - Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lou
>>> Rosenberg
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>>
>>> Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>> I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>> the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>> a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>> year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>> I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton
>>> have
>>> helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
>>> rigging
>>> and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently
>>> Elton
>>> brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>
> [Message truncated]
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
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