[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1919, Issue 2
captainpy at comcast.net
captainpy at comcast.net
Fri Jul 17 15:44:37 EDT 2009
Stan,
Phil origonally was interested in purchasing a recyled Rhodes. If you remember I am the one who asked him for a new one. I was that impressed and fell in love with the quality, craftsmanship, design, the perfection and pride you put into each sailboat. My 22 Rhodes gets more looks than I do in a bikini. I doubt that I can ever adequately explain to you how happy I am with this sailboat which is one of the reasons I have chosen to try and promot it at the top on my list on my website. What ever photos or writen material you send me, I would be happy to post on militarymarina.com.
Sincerely,
Deena A.K.A. CaptainPy
P.O. Box 464
Occoquan, VA 22125
captainpy at comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
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To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:00:42 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1919, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Stan .... got mast stubs? how much? (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
2. Re: Boids-- stinkin rotten boids (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
3. Re: the war of the rhodeses (cowie)
4. Minimum Door height? (Basso)
5. Our Sailing Bravado (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
6. Re: Minimum Door height? (Hank)
7. Re: Center Board Well Leak (David Walker)
8. Re: Center Board Well Leak (David Walker)
9. Re: the war of the rhodeses (michael meltzer)
10. Re: Minimum Door height? (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:29:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stan .... got mast stubs? how much?
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<30350641.1247840975328.JavaMail.root at mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Mike,
It might be close, putting the pop-top up with the mast in its normal position, even with the factory elevated crutch. You could bolt 1" aluminum strip(8.95 48" Home Depot) to each side of Stubby and raise the mast off of the bow pulpit only at the camp site, back to the pulpit for transit, of course. That would actually be very simple to do.
Tell you what, I like the idea so much I will make Stubby in my spare time. Only problem, Mary Jane will want four, coated in the different colors to match her four season colored dresses.
What's a fella to do?
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Cheung <mikecheung at att.net>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 8:55 AM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stan .... got mast stubs? how much?
>
>
>Yeah, guess that makes sense that most any mast close in external dimensions
>would work. It would need to fit the mast car and I guess I'd probably need
>a second one of those for convenience. I suppose if I anticipated that need
>I could slip the mask car for Muireann's pop top off when unrigging. That
>makes me nervous though from a "darn, where the heck is it" standpoint.
>It's harder to lose if it never comes off the mast. Maybe wouldn't be a bad
>idea to spare that anyway I suppose.
>
>I see what you mean about needing stays, though I like the idea of using the
>mast on its trailering cradle for support. Have to think a bit about what
>kind of loads would be involved, but it looks like it should be okay. I've
>been thinking about rigging a mast crutch amidships anyway for when Muireann
>is tarped down for the winter. Didn't use a tarp this winter and she picked
>up enough snow that I shoveled her off a couple times. Of course, if I just
>cleaned up my barn a bit she could probably slumber in covered luxury.
>
> Mike
>
>
>Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> If Stan does not have, any standard ~3" wide will do well in the step. A
>> good option for camping or motoring sans sail. The 'mini-stays' are a
>> mite challenge - you will need to use wire if you have to support weight
>> aft, like cockpit versus pop-top enclosure.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mike Cheung <mikecheung at att.net>
>>>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 2:07 PM
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stan .... got mast stubs? how much?
>>>
>>>
>>>Stan,
>>>
>>>There's been discussions about using mast stubs while the boat's rigged
>for
>>>trailering to enable one to raise the pop top.
>>>
>>>Do you have mast stubs? And about how much might you part with them for?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Mike Cheung
>>>s/v Muireann 1993/2008 R22
>>>--
>>>View this message in context:
>http://www.nabble.com/Stan-....-got-mast-stubs---how-much--tp24521578p24521578.html
>>>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Stan-....-got-mast-stubs---how-much--tp24521578p24533951.html
>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:36:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boids-- stinkin rotten boids
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<9108491.1247841389330.JavaMail.root at mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Just for general consumption (if you happen to have it, of course) Sailrite will ship you 60" Sunbrella as you wish, although more expensive. Any cover will be better and more durable if you reinforce the edges. Just some helpful advise.
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 10:19 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boids-- stinkin rotten boids
>
>rory,
>Hi thee to your local paint store (not home store).?
>they have heavy duty painters' canvas tarps which are 1) inexpensive and 2) perfect for throwing over the boom to protect your cockpit.
>(They also have thin weave cheaper ones...get the heavy, tightly woven ones..they will wash with the hose & will not leak in the rain...unless they are saturated, but that's only happens after several days of heavy rain.)
>We have used these when cruising on our former keel boat.....not just to keep 'stuff out of the cockpit..) ?It makes a cooling cover for down below & the cockpit. Spray it with water & there is a great cooling effect.
>elle
>You'll have to install a few grommets but that's minor.
>
>Beer is good....people are crazy
>
>1992 Rhodes 22 ? ?Recycled '06"Watermusic" ?{Lady in Red}
>
>--- On Tue, 7/14/09, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>From: Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boids-- stinkin rotten boids
>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 5:04 PM
>
>Rory,
>
>I built a bird cover a few months ago for Joe Williams' boat.? While inexpensive, even heavy duty tarps will be a disappointment, maybe a few months or service before they fray and tear.? I'd suggest Sunbrella, fitted if possible, fixed to the boom if possible to avoid material shifting.? It is not an easy application but will work well if done right.? Same suggestion on the foredeck, which is a most likely target.? Sunbrella is easily cleaned, although much more expensive.?
>
>I can provide more detail if you reach me off-list.
>
>Chow,
>
>Art
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: R Orkin <roryorkin at verizon.net>
>>Sent: Jul 14, 2009 4:37 PM
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list]? Boids-- stinkin rotten boids
>>
>>
>>Seems that the water birds love to sit on my boat on the lift and feast on
>>fish leaving all sorts of deposits and a total mess.. I have considered
>>putting a tarp over the boom sort of like a dodger to try and stop this.
>>Anyone have any other ideas ??
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Rory
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Rory Orkin
>>Tilghman, Md
>>2000 Recycled? Rhodes 22
>>Duet ll
>>--
>>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Boids---stinkin-rotten-boids-tp24486963p24486963.html
>>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>__________________________________________________
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:46:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: cowie <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <24535889.post at talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
General boats has my full support!
Mary Lou Troy-2 wrote:
>
> We hadn't intended to comment on this exchange but when you step in a
> hornets nest sometimes you are compelled to do things you wouldn't
> ordinarily do.
>
> If and when we decide to get a new pop-top enclosure (or a new to us,
> used pop-top enclosure like our current one - purchased from GB that
> has given us a number of years of service and which I have customized
> to our needs) we plan to look at the available options from General
> Boats and other vendors. We will purchase the item that best fits our
> needs based on features and price point. If we purchase a pop-top
> enclosure from another vendor particularly a vendor that has worked
> with GB in the past, we would make sure that GB gets their commission
> whether it is included in the vendor's price for the product or
> whether we send it directly to General Boats. We would encourage
> other Rhodes 22 owners to do the same.
>
> Mary Lou and Fred
> the very pleased owners since 1998
> of Fretless, a 1991 Rhodes 22
> recycled by General Boats in 1998
>
>
>
>
> At 12:25 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote:
>>Dear Rhodies:
>>
>>Art says we are boring you all with this issue, that it is a private,
>>personal matter and not appropriate to discuss in this forum. He is
>>incorrect. It is a fundamental issue to GB's well being and therefore to
>>you, to the extent of your interest in your Rhodes. We suggest you hear
it
>>out until resolved one way or another.
>>
>>Should you need a new IMF mast or centerboard or rudder blade or endless
>>other unique parts that Art or others do not choose to invest in producing
-
>>and GB is not here, no one is going to be able to make your boat whole
>>again. There is good reason why most of us would not buy a car that is
out
>>of production - there is certainly good reason why the Rhodes is not only
>>easy to sell but also demands a premium price over boats no longer being
>>built. The former editor of Practical Sailor, in his book recommending
>>trailer sailboats, ends his list by pointing out that the Rhodes is the
only
>>suggested choice still in production.
>>
>>If not for the many private sellers and purchasers going along with the
>>voluntary GB loyalty/royalty program (which incidentally, Art, who has
>>purchased and sold several Rhodes privately, would not agree to) and not
for
>>parts sales such as Pop Top enclosures (which, incidentally, we have
$10,000
>>worth of sitting here in inventory), in an economy such as this, where not
a
>>single new boat is being sold, GB would have no choice but to abandon this
>>ship.
>>
>>
>>OK, you can stop reading here. But for anyone wanting to understand why we
>>are so troubled by this particular Parts issue, a little background on an
>>agreement that, we now learn from Art's e-mail to the List, has
>>unilaterally "mutually" agreed to have ended:
>>Art worked on this project inside the GB plant, used the GB
"not-the-Hilton"
>>facilities, displayed the product in hard to get and costly water space
that
>>GB worked out during the Annapolis Boat Show and that GB ended up paying
>>for, including even an additional day that Art unilaterally elected to
take.
>>At the St. Petersburg Show, where after several years of trying, we
managed
>>a valuable water space, after hearing Art had his boat in FL, we asked if
he
>>would like to promote the boom room at this show. We returned Dr.
Fullers'
>>beautiful new boat that we had planned to use for demos from this space in
>>favor of Art using it with the understanding that we could use his boat
for
>>an occasional demo for a qualified pending prospect. When Elton did take
a
>>prospect to Art's boat he found Art was not honoring the Show hours and
the
>>boat was chain-locked to the dock. Art's position, "No one sails my
boat".
>>When we did mange Art to give a demo sail we explained to him that part of
>>the demonstration is that we go in and out of the large harbor under sail
as
>>the competition does and that demos are only an hour in case another hot
>>prospect comes along. Art refused to sail and each time went to and from
>>the bay under power. I suppose once sailing he was in his element since
he
>>stayed away for hours and few demos were done during the show. Art's
>>remarkable position: He was a volunteer and could therefore make his own
>>rules - just like volunteers for the army or the Red Cross. Elton finally
>>blew his top when, after arranging for our hottest prospect to make a long
>>trip back to St. Petersburg on Sunday for a demo sail, Art announced that
he
>>was leaving the show a day early - after all he was a volunteer and could
>>make his own rules from moment to moment. I certainly felt like an idiot
>>not having put Dr. Fuller's boat in that precious dock space. I do not
>>know if Art ever did show the boom room.
>>
>>
>>The deal with Art pertained only to the boom room, with shared income from
>>its sales. It was not for competing with other parts like the Pop Top
>>enclosures which we have an inventory investment in. Of course it is a
>>free country and a free market and, of course, we all have seen what
>>unregulated "freedom" can do to our economy. To believe GB has the
freedom
>>to keep investing in new ideas and keep investing in promoting the boat
and
>>taking care of current Rhodies' needs, for the non-rewarding benefit of
>>private re-sales and parts sales for others to profit from, is a fantasy.
>>It is important for us to have your feedback on these kind of issues. We
>>need the support of our owners if we are to keep worrying and working to
>>keep our owners sailing and keep the value of their boats growing. Or do
we
>>just stop being so damn conscientious and say the hell with it and go
>>sailing ourselves? (No need for us to hear Rummy's answer to that last
>>question.)
>>
>>stan/gbi
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "cowie" <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I had the pleasure of deploying my Bimini and pop top enclosure on my
>> > recent
>> > trip to st Michaels. Both worked great. I understand Stan has
>> recently
>> > improved the fit of the pop top enclosure and his guys did a great job
>> on
>> > the custom installation. While I could have ordered certain items
>> direct
>> > I
>> > have made a point to go thru general boats. I think it's neat that I
>> own
>> > a
>> > boat that was concieved the same I was and hope to help it keep going
>> for
>> > another fifty.
>> >
>> > stanleyl wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OK gang, it looks like Art and I are going to take up the slack left
>> by
>> >> the withdrawal of the political junkies. At first I thought we
>> should
>> >> label these upcoming e-mail missives so you can delete before reading.
>> >> But on reflection, what is going to be covered gets to the business
>> >> basics
>> >> of General Boats and its future.
>> >>
>> >> Art will be a formable opponent in this case, having graduated from
>> the
>> >> Academy vs. my not being able to get beyond the "Petty" ranking due to
>> a
>> >> Navy designated overbite. My protestation that I did not plan to bite
>> >> the
>> >> enemy fell on deaf ears. I think being able to hear was not one of
>> the
>> >> requirements, as the unraveling facts in this case will bring out.
>> >>
>> >> In Art's opening remarks he says that the business terms with General
>> >> Boats had been voided. As proof he waves a blank paper that he has in
>> >> his
>> >> hand about a sale GB nixed but he salvaged. GB will show a timeline
>> and
>> >> investments that will paint another picture. The importance of this
>> >> small
>> >> claims case is seen in Art's 7/12/09 e-mail to Mary Lou - the tip of a
>> >> collectively growing ice burg that can sink the Rhodes You may want
>> to
>> >> stay tuned to be informed by GB, Art, and fellow Rhodies, to draw your
>> >> own
>> >> conclusions.
>> >>
>> >> stan/general boats
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > View this message in context:
>> > http://www.nabble.com/the-war-of-the-rhodeses-tp24461657p24470681.html
>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > __________________________________________________
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.16/2241 - Release Date:
>>07/16/09 05:58:00
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/the-war-of-the-rhodeses-tp24461657p24535889.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:18:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Basso <jbroadri at amfam.com>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Minimum Door height?
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <24536487.post at talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am soon to purchase a new to me rhodes from Stan, and I'm trying to find a
place to store it indoors for its winter nap. I could go with outside
storage, but with the snow etc, I prefer indoors. We are also looking at
storage units since it would be nice to store the motorcycle, lawn-mower and
patio furniture. Our problem is that most of the door heights around me
seem to be in the 9 foot range unless you are looking at huge units that
also cost a fortune. Does anyone know the height of the boat on the trailer
with the mast on the stern rail?
I was able to find that the height with the mast in the crutch is 12 feet,
but I cannot find anything that tells me the height if I take the mast down
to the stern rail. I saw one post saying that a 10 foot door was
sufficient, but I'm curious if a 9 foot door would work.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
John B
Madison, WI
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Minimum-Door-height--tp24536487p24536487.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:24:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Our Sailing Bravado
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<6348733.1247844255577.JavaMail.root at mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Cowie,
Couldn't agree with you more, you have the best boat on the water, bar none. It sounds like you are really enjoying your sailing on the bay - some insist that the R22 was made for LIS - I'd rather suggest it is most suitable everywhere except blue water. Bill Wittman expanded that to the Gulf Stream and the Bahamas. If you bring it to the Tampa area, which Ron does, we can show you some really excellent options for Winter sailing. You have probably found that the boat trails very well.
Happy sailing,
Art
s/v Mary Jane
Lake Hartwell/Rummyland
-----Original Message-----
>From: cowie <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 10:46 AM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>
>
>General boats has my full support!
>> If and when we decide to get a new pop-top enclosure (or a new to us,
>> used pop-top enclosure like our current one - purchased from GB that
>> has given us a number of years of service and which I
from General
>> Boats and other vendors. We will purchase the item that best fits our
>> needs based on features and price point. If we purchase a pop-top
>> enclosure from another vendor particularly a vendor that has worked
>> with GB in the past, we would make sure that GB gets their commission
>> whether it is included in the vendor's price for the product or
>> whether we send it directly to General Boats. We would encourage
>> other Rhodes 22 owners to do the same.
>>
>> Mary Lou and Fred
>> the very pleased owners since 1998
>> of Fretless, a 1991 Rhodes 22
>> recycled by General Boats in 1998
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 12:25 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote:
>>>Dear Rhodies:
>>>
>>>Art says we are boring you all with this issue, that it is a private,
>>>personal matter and not appropriate to discuss in this forum. He is
>>>incorrect. It is a fundamental issue to GB's well being and therefore to
>>>you, to the extent of your interest in your Rhodes. We suggest you hear
>it
>>>out until resolved one way or another.
>>>
>>>Should you need a new IMF mast or centerboard or rudder blade or endless
>>>other unique parts that Art or others do not choose to invest in producing
>-
>>>and GB is not here, no one is going to be able to make your boat whole
>>>again. There is good reason why most of us would not buy a car that is
>out
>>>of production - there is certainly good reason why the Rhodes is not only
>>>easy to sell but also demands a premium price over boats no longer being
>>>built. The former editor of Practical Sailor, in his book recommending
>>>trailer sailboats, ends his list by pointing out that the Rhodes is the
>only
>>>suggested choice still in production.
>>>
>>>If not for the many private sellers and purchasers going along with the
>>>voluntary GB loyalty/royalty program (which incidentally, Art, who has
>>>purchased and sold several Rhodes privately, would not agree to) and not
>for
>>>parts sales such as Pop Top enclosures (which, incidentally, we have
>$10,000
>>>worth of sitting here in inventory), in an economy such as this, where not
>a
>>>single new boat is being sold, GB would have no choice but to abandon this
>>>ship.
>>>
>>>
>>>OK, you can stop reading here. But for anyone wanting to understand why we
>>>are so troubled by this particular Parts issue, a little background on an
>>>agreement that, we now learn from Art's e-mail to the List, has
>>>unilaterally "mutually" agreed to have ended:
>>>Art worked on this project inside the GB plant, used the GB
>"not-the-Hilton"
>>>facilities, displayed the product in hard to get and costly water space
>that
>>>GB worked out during the Annapolis Boat Show and that GB ended up paying
>>>for, including even an additional day that Art unilaterally elected to
>take.
>>>At the St. Petersburg Show, where after several years of trying, we
>managed
>>>a valuable water space, after hearing Art had his boat in FL, we asked if
>he
>>>would like to promote the boom room at this show. We returned Dr.
>Fullers'
>>>beautiful new boat that we had planned to use for demos from this space in
>>>favor of Art using it with the understanding that we could use his boat
>for
>>>an occasional demo for a qualified pending prospect. When Elton did take
>a
>>>prospect to Art's boat he found Art was not honoring the Show hours and
>the
>>>boat was chain-locked to the dock. Art's position, "No one sails my
>boat".
>>>When we did mange Art to give a demo sail we explained to him that part of
>>>the demonstration is that we go in and out of the large harbor under sail
>as
>>>the competition does and that demos are only an hour in case another hot
>>>prospect comes along. Art refused to sail and each time went to and from
>>>the bay under power. I suppose once sailing he was in his element since
>he
>>>stayed away for hours and few demos were done during the show. Art's
>>>remarkable position: He was a volunteer and could therefore make his own
>>>rules - just like volunteers for the army or the Red Cross. Elton finally
>>>blew his top when, after arranging for our hottest prospect to make a long
>>>trip back to St. Petersburg on Sunday for a demo sail, Art announced that
>he
>>>was leaving the show a day early - after all he was a volunteer and could
>>>make his own rules from moment to moment. I certainly felt like an idiot
>>>not having put Dr. Fuller's boat in that precious dock space. I do not
>>>know if Art ever did show the boom room.
>>>
>>>
>>>The deal with Art pertained only to the boom room, with shared income from
>>>its sales. It was not for competing with other parts like the Pop Top
>>>enclosures which we have an inventory investment in. Of course it is a
>>>free country and a free market and, of course, we all have seen what
>>>unregulated "freedom" can do to our economy. To believe GB has the
>freedom
>>>to keep investing in new ideas and keep investing in promoting the boat
>and
>>>taking care of current Rhodies' needs, for the non-rewarding benefit of
>>>private re-sales and parts sales for others to profit from, is a fantasy.
>>>It is important for us to have your feedback on these kind of issues. We
>>>need the support of our owners if we are to keep worrying and working to
>>>keep our owners sailing and keep the value of their boats growing. Or do
>we
>>>just stop being so damn conscientious and say the hell with it and go
>>>sailing ourselves? (No need for us to hear Rummy's answer to that last
>>>question.)
>>>
>>>stan/gbi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "cowie" <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
>>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:36 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I had the pleasure of deploying my Bimini and pop top enclosure on my
>>> > recent
>>> > trip to st Michaels. Both worked great. I understand Stan has
>>> recently
>>> > improved the fit of the pop top enclosure and his guys did a great job
>>> on
>>> > the custom installation. While I could have ordered certain items
>>> direct
>>> > I
>>> > have made a point to go thru general boats. I think it's neat that I
>>> own
>>> > a
>>> > boat that was concieved the same I was and hope to help it keep going
>>> for
>>> > another fifty.
>>> >
>>> > stanleyl wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> OK gang, it looks like Art and I are going to take up the slack left
>>> by
>>> >> the withdrawal of the political junkies. At first I thought we
>>> should
>>> >> label these upcoming e-mail missives so you can delete before reading.
>>> >> But on reflection, what is going to be covered gets to the business
>>> >> basics
>>> >> of General Boats and its future.
>>> >>
>>> >> Art will be a formable opponent in this case, having graduated from
>>> the
>>> >> Academy vs. my not being able to get beyond the "Petty" ranking due to
>>> a
>>> >> Navy designated overbite. My protestation that I did not plan to bite
>>> >> the
>>> >> enemy fell on deaf ears. I think being able to hear was not one of
>>> the
>>> >> requirements, as the unraveling facts in this case will bring out.
>>> >>
>>> >> In Art's opening remarks he says that the business terms with General
>>> >> Boats had been voided. As proof he waves a blank paper that he has in
>>> >> his
>>> >> hand about a sale GB nixed but he salvaged. GB will show a timeline
>>> and
>>> >> investments that will paint another picture. The importance of this
>>> >> small
>>> >> claims case is seen in Art's 7/12/09 e-mail to Mary Lou - the tip of a
>>> >> collectively growing ice burg that can sink the Rhodes You may want
>>> to
>>> >> stay tuned to be informed by GB, Art, and fellow Rhodies, to draw your
>>> >> own
>>> >> conclusions.
>>> >>
>>> >> stan/general boats
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > View this message in context:
>>> > http://www.nabble.com/the-war-of-the-rhodeses-tp24461657p24470681.html
>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> >
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.16/2241 - Release Date:
>>>07/16/09 05:58:00
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/the-war-of-the-rhodeses-tp24461657p24535889.html
>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:24:57 -0400
From: Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Minimum Door height?
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<c319c8b50907170824m5caa65c1g687c79453281c2d2 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
John,
I can't help you with the height, but as far as the mast goes, I would take
it off the boat and just store it on the ground under the trailer. That was
you can easily get inside the boat during the winter and also not have to
worry about any height restrictions.
Hank
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Basso <jbroadri at amfam.com> wrote:
>
> I am soon to purchase a new to me rhodes from Stan, and I'm trying to find
> a
> place to store it indoors for its winter nap. I could go with outside
> storage, but with the snow etc, I prefer indoors. We are also looking at
> storage units since it would be nice to store the motorcycle, lawn-mower
> and
> patio furniture. Our problem is that most of the door heights around me
> seem to be in the 9 foot range unless you are looking at huge units that
> also cost a fortune. Does anyone know the height of the boat on the
> trailer
> with the mast on the stern rail?
>
> I was able to find that the height with the mast in the crutch is 12 feet,
> but I cannot find anything that tells me the height if I take the mast down
> to the stern rail. I saw one post saying that a 10 foot door was
> sufficient, but I'm curious if a 9 foot door would work.
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated.
>
> John B
> Madison, WI
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Minimum-Door-height--tp24536487p24536487.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:25:25 -0400
From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Center Board Well Leak
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <007d01ca06f2$cecf60f0$6501a8c0 at DELLDESK>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Jim,
My CB lifting line uses a cam cleat mounted on the bridge deck just above
and aft of the hole for the pennant. Never had a problem with it dropping.
David Walker
www.davidwalkerphotography.com
Event Specialists
781-639-2707 Office
781-718-8690 Cell
----- Original Message -----
From: <jimtracyjohnston at centurytel.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Center Board Well Leak
> David, Thank you for your input. Last fall I had our R-22 up in a
> lift. The CB lifting line broke and allowed the CB to drop down under
> the boat. The boat was elevated on the lift out of the water but not
> high enough. When large waves rolled into the shore the boat was lifted
> up and off the lift crade. This alloewd the CB to drop all of the way
> down into a vertical position. When the wave rolled past the lift the
> boat floated back down and the CB in a vertical position was pushed up
> through the CB trunk cap. I had leaks in the CB cap years ago and
> replaced all of the screws (52) with #10-32x1-1/2" stainless steel
> bolts and nuts. I added a neoprene gasket and washers on both the top
> and bottom of the CB trunk flang. I also removed the 4:1 pulleys in the
> trunk and on the CB. I still have some water in the CB well area. I'm
> not sure if it is draining down into this area from other areas of the
> boat i.e. under cock-pit floor, thru-hull fittings etc. I could feel
> better about my CB staying up with better a cleating system for the
> lifting line. Replacing the lifting line is much easier without the 4:1
> pulley system. I am open for ideas for the CB lifting line cleat. Jim J
>
> Quoting David Walker <david.walker5 at comcast.net>:
>> Rummy,
>>
>> Glad to be back. BTW how's your gas tank? Any Kabooms yet?
>>
>> As for the UHMWPE, there is a lot of it on my boat clearly from the
>> factory.
>> The pop top slider, boom slider and most of the outboard mount. Any way
>> thats not the point. I just wanted to let people know what they might
>> find.
>>
>> The kneeling to get the cap off was fun. I used tile layers neepads and
>> that helped a lot. The tough part was getting the backing wrench on the
>> bolt heads under the flange.
>>
>>
>> David Walker
>>
>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>>
>> Event Specialists
>>
>> 781-639-2707 Office
>> 781-718-8690 Cell
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Center Board Well Leak
>>
>>
>> > Dave,
>> > Welcome back to the list. Finding leaks can be a real problem when
>> > there
>> > are previous owners possibly involved. I have been inside five
>> > centerboard
>> > trunks over the years and everyone one is different. No two were
>> > identical.
>> > Previous owners or who knows who had been changes to the pulley systems
>> > and
>> > parts that operate the centerboard. I can pretty much assure you that
>> > the
>> > use of UHMWPE was not a factory fix. Glad you were able to make the
>> > repair
>> > once you knew the problem. Working in that area certainly is not fun.
>> > I
>> > can't kneel for extended periods anymore. Old age is beginning to take
>> > it's
>> > toll on my poor abused body.
>> >
>> > Rummy
>> >
>> >
>> > In a message dated 7/13/2009 3:43:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> > david.walker5 at comcast.net writes:
>> >
>> > Greetings to the list.
>> >
>> > I haven't been active on the list for a few years but have been
>> > actively
>> > sailing my boat, Windswept, out of Salem harbor in MA. I re-signed up
>> > to
>> > share with you all something I found this spring that I think should
>> > be
>> > brought to all owners attention.
>> >
>> > For the 11 years I have owned my R22 (bought from Stan in 1998 as
>> > recycled) I have been fighting a slow leak. Many helpful suggestions
>> > pointed at
>> > rainwater leaks, which I did have and were mostly fixed. However there
>> > was
>> > a
>> > consistent salt water leak that I could not find. I pretty easily ruled
>> > out
>> > the thru hulls and was left with the centerboard well. Two years ago I
>> > removed the cap and cleaned the mating surfaces, replaced the fender
>> > washers and
>> > removed a small block that was through bolted to the top of the cap
>> > (part
>> > of the 4:1 board raising tackle). This didn't make any change.
>> >
>> > Last summer returning to the boat (at her mooring) after a weeks
>> > absence
>> > I
>> > found water about a foot above the sole. The battery was under water
>> > and
>> > completely shorted out. Its unclear whether the bilge pump failed or
>> > the
>> > increasing leak rate caused the pump to discharge the battery. Anyway,
>> > I
>> > limped to the local marina where I winter store, pumped out the bilge
>> > with a
>> > home sump pump, had an emergency haul and had it blocked for the
>> > winter.
>> > (I
>> > was pretty discouraged and was about to leave on a 3 week trip).
>> >
>> > This spring I resolved to find the leak once and for all. When I
>> > opened
>> > the boat I found a little rain water in the bilge but nothing was
>> > leaking
>> > out. I filled the bilge to above the cap and a steady trickle started
>> > to
>> > run
>> > out of the aft end of the CB slot. I lowered the water with a pump to
>> > just
>> > below the cap seal and the trickle continued. I lowered the water
>> > level
>> > to
>> > about halfway from the cap to the bilge and the trickle stopped. Very
>> > strange. This eliminated the cap seal and the pennant thru hull as a
>> > leak.
>> >
>> > I removed the cap (fun job) and carefully inspected the inside of the
>> > well. At the aft end I found a piece of UHMWP in the shape of an
>> > upside
>> > down V
>> > wedged from side to side at the top of the well. My guess is its job
>> > is
>> > as
>> > a seat for the top of the CB when it is up to keep it from moving side
>> > to
>> > side. The critical thing is that this piece was screwed in place with
>> > long
>> > screws from the top of the piece, diagonally down through the side of
>> > the
>> > well from inside to outside. The tips of the screws were actually
>> > though
>> > the
>> > outside of the well about halfway up from the blige to the cap. After
>> > years
>> > of the board banging into this, the screws had loosened in the fiber
>> > glass
>> > and I could literally just pull them out with my hand. These screws
>> > were
>> > loose in their holes had provided literally two holes in the bottom of
>> > the
>> > boat. I took them out, dried out the area, ground it down and patched
>> > with
>> > epoxy and two layers of glass inside and out.
>> >
>> > My point in this post is that this may or may not have been done at
>> > the
>> > factory and I'm not blaming anyone, but it was present in my hull. If
>> > anyone
>> > has a slow leak in this area, it would be worthwile to check it out,
>> > and
>> > if
>> > you pull your cap for any reason definetely check it. Now I just have
>> > to
>> > finish all those pesky port light rain leaks!!
>> >
>> >
>> > Dave Walker
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists
>> > on
>> > tour at TourTracker.com.
>> > (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006)
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:27:38 -0400
From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Center Board Well Leak
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <008201ca06f3$1e79aa70$6501a8c0 at DELLDESK>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Rummy,
I know what the lake must look like. My sister and brother-in-law live in
Gainesville GA on Lake Lanier. We were down for a wedding in April and it
was pretty dismal. One nice thing about the ocean, its only going up.
David Walker
www.davidwalkerphotography.com
Event Specialists
781-639-2707 Office
781-718-8690 Cell
----- Original Message -----
From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Center Board Well Leak
> David,
> Nope, no Kabooms. RumRunner has been on the hard for a little over a year
> now. Our lake decided to all but disappear and then suddenly reappear this
> spring. Hartwell dropped an amazing 23 feet before the Army Corps decided
> to
> fill it back up. We are still currently four feet below full pool, but
> three years of draught conditions really hurt. I took advantage of the
> low
> water and had her repainted. I have a couple of additional upgrades and
> things
> to take care of and then she will be back in the water.....soon I hope.
> Work seems to be getting in the way of working on her.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 7/14/2009 11:26:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> david.walker5 at comcast.net writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> Glad to be back. BTW how's your gas tank? Any Kabooms yet?
>
> As for the UHMWPE, there is a lot of it on my boat clearly from the
> factory.
> The pop top slider, boom slider and most of the outboard mount. Any way
> thats not the point. I just wanted to let people know what they might
> find.
>
> The kneeling to get the cap off was fun. I used tile layers neepads and
> that helped a lot. The tough part was getting the backing wrench on the
> bolt heads under the flange.
>
>
> David Walker
>
> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>
> Event Specialists
>
> 781-639-2707 Office
> 781-718-8690 Cell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Center Board Well Leak
>
>
>> Dave,
>> Welcome back to the list. Finding leaks can be a real problem when there
>> are previous owners possibly involved. I have been inside five
> centerboard
>> trunks over the years and everyone one is different. No two were
>> identical.
>> Previous owners or who knows who had been changes to the pulley systems
>> and
>> parts that operate the centerboard. I can pretty much assure you that
>> the
>> use of UHMWPE was not a factory fix. Glad you were able to make the
>> repair
>> once you knew the problem. Working in that area certainly is not fun.
>> I
>> can't kneel for extended periods anymore. Old age is beginning to take
>> it's
>> toll on my poor abused body.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/13/2009 3:43:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> david.walker5 at comcast.net writes:
>>
>> Greetings to the list.
>>
>> I haven't been active on the list for a few years but have been
>> actively
>> sailing my boat, Windswept, out of Salem harbor in MA. I re-signed up
>> to
>> share with you all something I found this spring that I think should be
>> brought to all owners attention.
>>
>> For the 11 years I have owned my R22 (bought from Stan in 1998 as
>> recycled) I have been fighting a slow leak. Many helpful suggestions
>> pointed at
>> rainwater leaks, which I did have and were mostly fixed. However there
> was
>> a
>> consistent salt water leak that I could not find. I pretty easily ruled
>> out
>> the thru hulls and was left with the centerboard well. Two years ago I
>> removed the cap and cleaned the mating surfaces, replaced the fender
>> washers and
>> removed a small block that was through bolted to the top of the cap
>> (part
>> of the 4:1 board raising tackle). This didn't make any change.
>>
>> Last summer returning to the boat (at her mooring) after a weeks
> absence
>> I
>> found water about a foot above the sole. The battery was under water
>> and
>> completely shorted out. Its unclear whether the bilge pump failed or
>> the
>> increasing leak rate caused the pump to discharge the battery. Anyway,
>> I
>> limped to the local marina where I winter store, pumped out the bilge
>> with a
>> home sump pump, had an emergency haul and had it blocked for the
> winter.
>> (I
>> was pretty discouraged and was about to leave on a 3 week trip).
>>
>> This spring I resolved to find the leak once and for all. When I opened
>> the boat I found a little rain water in the bilge but nothing was
> leaking
>> out. I filled the bilge to above the cap and a steady trickle started
> to
>> run
>> out of the aft end of the CB slot. I lowered the water with a pump to
>> just
>> below the cap seal and the trickle continued. I lowered the water level
>> to
>> about halfway from the cap to the bilge and the trickle stopped. Very
>> strange. This eliminated the cap seal and the pennant thru hull as a
>> leak.
>>
>> I removed the cap (fun job) and carefully inspected the inside of the
>> well. At the aft end I found a piece of UHMWP in the shape of an upside
>> down V
>> wedged from side to side at the top of the well. My guess is its job is
>> as
>> a seat for the top of the CB when it is up to keep it from moving side
> to
>> side. The critical thing is that this piece was screwed in place with
>> long
>> screws from the top of the piece, diagonally down through the side of
> the
>> well from inside to outside. The tips of the screws were actually
> though
>> the
>> outside of the well about halfway up from the blige to the cap. After
>> years
>> of the board banging into this, the screws had loosened in the fiber
>> glass
>> and I could literally just pull them out with my hand. These screws
>> were
>> loose in their holes had provided literally two holes in the bottom of
>> the
>> boat. I took them out, dried out the area, ground it down and patched
>> with
>> epoxy and two layers of glass inside and out.
>>
>> My point in this post is that this may or may not have been done at the
>> factory and I'm not blaming anyone, but it was present in my hull. If
>> anyone
>> has a slow leak in this area, it would be worthwile to check it out,
> and
>> if
>> you pull your cap for any reason definetely check it. Now I just have
> to
>> finish all those pesky port light rain leaks!!
>>
>>
>> Dave Walker
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists
> on
>> tour at TourTracker.com.
>> (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006)
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on
> tour at TourTracker.com.
> (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006)
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:28:00 -0400
From: "michael meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <01f501ca06f3$2b15a9a0$8140fce0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Ok, maybe I am bored today and string the pot, and I will admit somewhat biased towards GB.
The quote is sticking like a knife in the gut(maybe it the self righteous tone of the overall posts about "competition"),
"some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is increased boat orders and boat production."
That is exactly what a boat show is, now I have helped gb over the years with the boat show and towing, storage... I can tell you that GB laid out a lot of money to do ST Pete(high 4 figures from past experience without knowing any of the details in this case at all).
What makes a boat show, selling maybe 1 boat and a great show 2 or more, very very thin.... Now chaining up a boat, not letting stan sail or sell(he sells most boat thought the demo sails), forcing people to captain and crew that might be "killing the sale", creating the tension on the docks and boat from all this "bad vibes" that kills sales. Stan and eltion do a relationship "sale", the means they are working with the customer for weeks and months investing a lot of money and time to know the persons needs, keeping them happy and getting them, to the shows to "see the boat" and making a deal.
What bothering me here, and from the tone of the email, Art, you relly do not "get it", I think you where a teacher in a past life, so the agony "student is rattling off fact and figures, but completely obvious to what they mean or how the system works in real life" you have this atom Smith model in your head to sell on price and that all what counts. But in the end it how you sell the product that really matters and that make or breaks the business. In the end you missed the whole "art of the sale", or how to relationship sell and it seam any sale training on how to sell people. The classic is still "Dale Carnegie" book from the 1930's, as a small business owner you are going to need to learn "how to sell"
-mjm
PS. I have Not talked to either side about this and only know what in the email on the list, I prefer to keep it that what way, call it the "Bloomberg" open transpierces model"
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:29 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
If you get five replies from me, it's a little like my email to Mary Lou that started this firestorm, my Earthlink email is not sending the emails as I designate. Are we TOUGH?
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 7:30 PM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>
> Art,
>
> While it may be like fingernails on a chalkboard to some (as will
>this e-mail), but why don't you defend yourself here in open forum?
>Your response just changed the subject. Besides, people here on the list
>who know me know I like a good argument.
>
> Stan does sell unique parts to to his unique boat. When I asked for
>pintles and gudgeons because I wanted build
>a rudder head just like the GB one, he would not sell them to me because
>my boat was bought aftermarket; not from him. He
>reserved to sell these specialized parts to "paying" customers, because
>his supplier was no longer in business and he had a finite
>number in stock. This pissed me off at first, but I understand and would
>do the same if I were him. Stan did however sell me a traveler
>car and for that I am grateful. I also sent Stan some money for a used
>standard mainsail and he sent me four.
>
> Twice I spoke about used boats which I was negotiating to purchase, here
>on the list, and both times Stan contacted the sellers and bought
>them out from under me. (which is why I did not talk about the e-bay boat
>in Bessemer City, NC). I never demanded a voluntary
>finder's fee from GB. So, I agree that paying any "volunteered" royalty
>or fee to GB for parts or boats sold here on the list is ridiculous....
>except in the case where Stan steers buyers to the list. Since the fees
>are voluntary, I don't think Stan should throw it in anyone's face
>either if they did not pay--nor do I believe these fees make or break
>GB,even in the present economy.
>
> Like you Art, I'd guess, there is nothing on any year Rhodes 22 which
>I could not fabricate myself (time permitting). I am all for giving Stan
>his due, and would
>rather buy a part from GB than have to make it myself. I would support
>the argument of selling any fabricated "copied" parts here on the
>list or otherwise; sans royalty fee, if Stan no longer sells or would
>fabricate and obsolete part. I'd imagine if that were the case, he'd
>probably
>tell you to knock yourself out because you would not be stealing his
>business. I started a heated debate over intellectual property rights
>when
>I created and posted dimensioned drawings of the triad trailer. My
>drawings are to benefit the do-it-yourselfers on the list and not to sell
>knock-offs.
>Nor am I worried about pissing Stan off by not paying a commission,
>royalty, "tithe" or 'loyalty' fee lest he refuse to sell me another part.
>I would however
>worry about him suing me.
>
> Stan does have a business to run, and has painted a less than rosy
>picture. I can't be the only inquiring mind wanting to know.
>
> Todd T
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:18:45 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Like I said once before, if anyone cares to hear more detail on the
> 'private and personal issues' that Stan has inappropriately focused
> on in this public forum, please contact me off-line or on the
> phone. Some have done already. He has gotten something off his
> chest. Simply put, there is a "World according to Stan" that is so
> sadly distorted in this case. I'd avoid it for yourself.
>
> It is such a waste of your time to fixate on such a trivial matters
> like these. Let's get to the key issues. I suspect Mary Lou made
> an excellent point of support for a payment of a surcharge,
> royalty, or commission for products of non-GB origin that we need
> and purchase for our fleet boats. If this is to be a sincere
> gesture to Stan by fleet members, it should not be limited to
> products supplied by me or anyone who happens to be a member of our
> fleet. When we buy line, SS fixtures, sails, anchors, or any
> equipment for our boats, this would seem to be similar
> justification for an override, a 'loyalty' fee or tithe, if you
> will.
>
> Consider this :Two years ago I found it necessary to approach Dwyer
> about replacing my spreader fixtures, distorted after many years of
> mast stepping. We used the rear lower shroud for attachment to the
> crane for lifting the IMF - the GB recommended method as late as
> the '06 Annapolis show. I approached Stan three times over as many
> months, from before that show until before the St Pete show the
> same year, in order to purchase two fixtures at about $40 per, and
> never received any response at all - none, nada, zippo. That seems
> non-responsive. Now, having to go to Dwyer, is a skipper whose
> request has been ignored somehow expected to forward a commission
> fee to Stan? Make your own judgement on what makes sense.
>
> If GB needs to be further underwritten and supported, maybe Stan
> should consider making interested investors shareholder/partners in
> GB. As 'stakeholders' in the R22 fleet, maybe this is not so far
> fetched for some of us, although not me. Think about it. There
> ought to be some way we can infuse GB without Stan effectively
> having to seek donations versus legit services. If GB is in a
> financial bind, more is needed than a loyalty fee gesture. This
> is, no doubt, a sensitive issue for him since it could affect GB
> ownership.
>
> I am not aware of any manufacturer (picture any of the sailboat
> manufacturers, even Catalina or MacGregor) who expects their
> customers to pay homage to them for after-market sales, maintenance
> or upgrades on their products which are not contracted by the
> manufacturer. Is anyone aware of such an industry obligation?
>
> A comment on my work - I am making a tiller cover for Dave, no
> charge, BTW. I have to charge when I make other items, ie the
> Cockpit Enclosure. I have no objection whatever if any client
> wants to project a 10% add-on for Stan. I simply cannot establish
> this 'side account' within my little enterprise, for tax and
> precedent issues. My pledge to you is that you will be using the
> absolute best product at the best cost, no exception. If I cannot
> provide the best value for you I will tell you honestly and decline
> the opportunity until I can, and I have done this. I'll respond
> promptly, by cell usually (I can get to know you and your
> priorities better), and produce with a commit to delivery and cost,
> even if I underestimate. I will treat any work as a priority
> custom crafted and fitted job, no assembly line mentality. I will
> provide more than enough cost advantage to enable to you to send
> Stan his due, but will not define the cost in such a way that
> requires you to. It w!
> ill be your free choice, friends. One additional point - I will
> enjoy making your product, whatever it is, and you will enjoy using
> it - that's just the rule. I will do well with canvas, and don't
> think I will begin producing sailboats...
>
> I will make a strong suggestion: Even though PR happenings, like
> the #1 poll results, an impressive 'Good Old Boat' writeup in ~
> '05, and the 'Sailing' p52 piece are good and free advertising,
> some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
> increased boat orders and boat production. Many of us found the
> R22 by sheer chance. Why put 'the bar' so low on purpose (BTW,
> with no reference to Rummy)?
>
> Once again, time for an aspirin...
>
> Stan for Vice President, Rose for Ms. America!
>
> Art
>
>
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:34:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Minimum Door height?
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<31040028.1247844875599.JavaMail.root at mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
John,
Likely you'll have a single axle trailer. This could give you added flexibility. You can lift the mast from the boat and store on saw-horses. If the stern is backed in, you could detach from the tow, lower the bow wheel fully, and I bet have room to spare so you can push inside fully. Once inside you could crank it up again. Good luck and Happy Sailing!
Chow,
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: Basso <jbroadri at amfam.com>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 11:18 AM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Minimum Door height?
>
>
>I am soon to purchase a new to me rhodes from Stan, and I'm trying to find a
>place to store it indoors for its winter nap. I could go with outside
>storage, but with the snow etc, I prefer indoors. We are also looking at
>storage units since it would be nice to store the motorcycle, lawn-mower and
>patio furniture. Our problem is that most of the door heights around me
>seem to be in the 9 foot range unless you are looking at huge units that
>also cost a fortune. Does anyone know the height of the boat on the trailer
>with the mast on the stern rail?
>
>I was able to find that the height with the mast in the crutch is 12 feet,
>but I cannot find anything that tells me the height if I take the mast down
>to the stern rail. I saw one post saying that a 10 foot door was
>sufficient, but I'm curious if a 9 foot door would work.
>
>Any guidance would be appreciated.
>
>John B
>Madison, WI
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Minimum-Door-height--tp24536487p24536487.html
>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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