[Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes Interior and elimination of compressi...

[David Culp]

Mike:

I was just talking about the aft tensioner only, not all the stays.   I take
the higher tension off the afts only and just match it to the rest of the
rig when the boat is at rest.  I have the old GBI grooved furler and my only
ability to tension the luff is with the aft stays.

David


Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:30:47 -0400
From: "Michael D. Weisner" <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes
       Interiorandelimination of compressi...
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <AC89556367114950AA5EB4C650919E39 at D9X7C761>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
       reply-type=original

Al,

That's funny, 'cause it was just what I was thinkin'.  I never tighten the
stays more than enough to take out the slack - I worry more that they are
evenly tensioned and that the mast is properly aligned vertically.  I always
felt that if they were too tight they started to sing when under sail.  I
never thought that they could cause damage to the deck or cabin roof.  One
thing to consider is that I do not have IMF (the mast is much lighter.)

Loosen them when at anchor? No way!  A loose rig could actually develop some
inertial moment and cause damage if the weather turns rough and the boat
bounces about.

Twenty eight years without problems and I don't want to start now.

Mike
s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
      Nissequogue River, NY

From: "Alan Robertson" Friday, June 05, 2009 8:30 PM
> Huh!  We never loosened any stays when not in use and after 25 years no
> signs of any kind of deflection or any other problem. Maybe Stan "don't
> build them like he useta?"
>
> THOR IV NY
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: David Culp<mailto:dculp at hsbtx.com>
>  To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>  Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:27 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes Interior
> andelimination of compressi...
>
>
>  John:
>
>  Email is impersonal sometimes-just don't want anyone I don't know in
> person
>  to get the wrong impression.  We are all just trying to have fun here and
>  learn something.
>
>  Communication is key and I just picked up on something in your last post
> and
>  that was that you had compression problems on the port side of the boat.
> My
>  problem was also on the port side.  The port side is also where the aft
> stay
>  tensioner line is tightened and secured on my boat.  Is it the same on
> your
>  boat?
>
>  That port aft stay has a lot of tension on it when in use.  I have been
>  guessing that the aft stays were over-tighten on my boat and left that
> way
>  which caused the cabin top to start bending over the top of the support
>  bulkhead.  Roger tuned his boat very tightly but cautioned that he always
>  released the aft stay tension when the boat was not in use.  Maybe now we
>  know why.  There is a huge mechanical advantage with the aft stays that
> you
>  don't have with the sides.  Rodger's example was tying both ends of a
>   "banana" but this boat is no banana.   In my simple mind it is more like
> a
>  crossbow and arrow... and the mast is the arrow.
>
>  I checked the upper side shrouds yesterday and I am carrying 180 lbs on
> the
>  Loos gauge so closer to your numbers then I thought but well below
> Rodger's.
>   What I should have checked is how much tension I have on the aft stays
> when
>  they are tightened.  Just by feel, I am guessing 240 but it may be more.
>
>  The lesson here MAY BE and I caution it's only a MAYBE is that you must
>  always make sure to release the aft stay tension when the boat is not in
> use
>  or you may face a compression problem over time.   Boats get pounded by
> chop
>  even in the slip and I can see something is eventually going to flex
> under
>  constant high tension.   I would assume that everyone is already doing
> that.
>   I always have.
>
>  David
>
>
>  Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 18:50:18 -0700 (PDT)
>  From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net<mailto:jsbudda at verizon.net>>
>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes Interior
>         and elimination of compressi...
>  To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>  Message-ID:
> <23862507.post at talk.nabble.com<mailto:23862507.post at talk.nabble.com>>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>  Dave,
>
>  You have nothing to apologize for, I came to this forum to learn from
> others
>  and to report my observations about how my boat responds to various
> settings
>  and configurations in the hope of increasing the pool of knowledge about
> our
>  boat. I would like to see your settings and would encourage others
> familiar
>  with a loos gauge to chime in with their numbers as well. The Roger piece
>  was the only writing I had found that had any numbers to go on when it
> came
>  time rig my boat last year so at first I duplicated his settings and did
> not
>  like what I saw inside the cabin so I backed them down to what I have now
>  and the cabin eased up some. My boat also had the port side of the cabin
>  compressed due to probable over tension by previous owners. In the
>  companionway on the port side the fiberglas has buckled. When I installed
>  the port side bulkhead I jacked up the ceiling to force fit the bulkhead
> in
>  place and that straightened out the buckling in the companionway by a
> large
>  degree. The first week the boat was in the water the rigging had the
> slack
>  taken out but was loose otherwise. We got hit at night by a cold front
> with
>  30 mph wind gusting to 50 the inside of the cabin creaked and groaned and
> I
>  wondered if my modifications were a mistake. Week 2 I snugged the rigging
> up
>  some more relying on feel and not using the gauge yet. Then went out in
> 10
>  to 15 mph with gusts. Boat seemed fine. Week 3
>  brought the rigging to present tension checking with gauge. Sailing in
> same
>  conditions boat has no problems. Over night we were hit again with 30 mph
> +
>  winds and the cabin noise was much less. I will continue to monitor the
>  situation and will chime in on this if something happens.
>
>  John Shulick