[Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes Interior andelimination of compressi...
Michael D. Weisner
mweisner at ebsmed.com
Sat Jun 6 17:10:13 EDT 2009
David,
I have the same tensioning setup and the original GBI furler for the 150%
genoa on a tube. I never found it necessary to back off the aft tensioner
when at anchor and would be concerned if the forestay (carrying the furler
on my boat) was to go limp, allowing the genoa and furler to "swing" a bit
as the boat reacts to weather and wakes. I probably do not apply as much
tension to the rig as some do and hence never had any problems. When Stan
setup my R22 in 1981, he just advised me to tighten until all slack was
removed. When the sails fill, the tension is plenty.
Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY
From: "David Culp" Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:48 PM
> Mike:
>
> I was just talking about the aft tensioner only, not all the stays. I
> take
> the higher tension off the afts only and just match it to the rest of the
> rig when the boat is at rest. I have the old GBI grooved furler and my
> only
> ability to tension the luff is with the aft stays.
>
> David
>
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:30:47 -0400
> From: "Michael D. Weisner" <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes
> Interiorandelimination of compressi...
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <AC89556367114950AA5EB4C650919E39 at D9X7C761>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Al,
>
> That's funny, 'cause it was just what I was thinkin'. I never tighten the
> stays more than enough to take out the slack - I worry more that they are
> evenly tensioned and that the mast is properly aligned vertically. I
> always
> felt that if they were too tight they started to sing when under sail. I
> never thought that they could cause damage to the deck or cabin roof. One
> thing to consider is that I do not have IMF (the mast is much lighter.)
>
> Loosen them when at anchor? No way! A loose rig could actually develop
> some
> inertial moment and cause damage if the weather turns rough and the boat
> bounces about.
>
> Twenty eight years without problems and I don't want to start now.
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Alan Robertson" Friday, June 05, 2009 8:30 PM
>> Huh! We never loosened any stays when not in use and after 25 years no
>> signs of any kind of deflection or any other problem. Maybe Stan "don't
>> build them like he useta?"
>>
>> THOR IV NY
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: David Culp<mailto:dculp at hsbtx.com>
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes Interior
>> andelimination of compressi...
>>
>>
>> John:
>>
>> Email is impersonal sometimes-just don't want anyone I don't know in
>> person
>> to get the wrong impression. We are all just trying to have fun here
>> and
>> learn something.
>>
>> Communication is key and I just picked up on something in your last post
>> and
>> that was that you had compression problems on the port side of the boat.
>> My
>> problem was also on the port side. The port side is also where the aft
>> stay
>> tensioner line is tightened and secured on my boat. Is it the same on
>> your
>> boat?
>>
>> That port aft stay has a lot of tension on it when in use. I have been
>> guessing that the aft stays were over-tighten on my boat and left that
>> way
>> which caused the cabin top to start bending over the top of the support
>> bulkhead. Roger tuned his boat very tightly but cautioned that he
>> always
>> released the aft stay tension when the boat was not in use. Maybe now
>> we
>> know why. There is a huge mechanical advantage with the aft stays that
>> you
>> don't have with the sides. Rodger's example was tying both ends of a
>> "banana" but this boat is no banana. In my simple mind it is more
>> like
>> a
>> crossbow and arrow... and the mast is the arrow.
>>
>> I checked the upper side shrouds yesterday and I am carrying 180 lbs on
>> the
>> Loos gauge so closer to your numbers then I thought but well below
>> Rodger's.
>> What I should have checked is how much tension I have on the aft stays
>> when
>> they are tightened. Just by feel, I am guessing 240 but it may be more.
>>
>> The lesson here MAY BE and I caution it's only a MAYBE is that you must
>> always make sure to release the aft stay tension when the boat is not in
>> use
>> or you may face a compression problem over time. Boats get pounded by
>> chop
>> even in the slip and I can see something is eventually going to flex
>> under
>> constant high tension. I would assume that everyone is already doing
>> that.
>> I always have.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 18:50:18 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net<mailto:jsbudda at verizon.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Subject: Re: Re design of Rhodes Interior
>> and elimination of compressi...
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <23862507.post at talk.nabble.com<mailto:23862507.post at talk.nabble.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> You have nothing to apologize for, I came to this forum to learn from
>> others
>> and to report my observations about how my boat responds to various
>> settings
>> and configurations in the hope of increasing the pool of knowledge about
>> our
>> boat. I would like to see your settings and would encourage others
>> familiar
>> with a loos gauge to chime in with their numbers as well. The Roger
>> piece
>> was the only writing I had found that had any numbers to go on when it
>> came
>> time rig my boat last year so at first I duplicated his settings and did
>> not
>> like what I saw inside the cabin so I backed them down to what I have
>> now
>> and the cabin eased up some. My boat also had the port side of the cabin
>> compressed due to probable over tension by previous owners. In the
>> companionway on the port side the fiberglas has buckled. When I
>> installed
>> the port side bulkhead I jacked up the ceiling to force fit the bulkhead
>> in
>> place and that straightened out the buckling in the companionway by a
>> large
>> degree. The first week the boat was in the water the rigging had the
>> slack
>> taken out but was loose otherwise. We got hit at night by a cold front
>> with
>> 30 mph wind gusting to 50 the inside of the cabin creaked and groaned
>> and
>> I
>> wondered if my modifications were a mistake. Week 2 I snugged the
>> rigging
>> up
>> some more relying on feel and not using the gauge yet. Then went out in
>> 10
>> to 15 mph with gusts. Boat seemed fine. Week 3
>> brought the rigging to present tension checking with gauge. Sailing in
>> same
>> conditions boat has no problems. Over night we were hit again with 30
>> mph
>> +
>> winds and the cabin noise was much less. I will continue to monitor the
>> situation and will chime in on this if something happens.
>>
>> John Shulick
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