[Rhodes22-list] 82 Rhodes22 for sale

[David Culp]

Matt:

Good post Matt... Reminds me of about 4 years ago when I had the
same conundrum and made a similar type post.  I purchased a used boat from a
private seller and upon joining the list, the issue was raised by Stan about
people (not necessarily directed at me) who love to get nice packets of
information with pictures, (which I did) and talk on the phone (which I did,
one time) and then go off and buy from a private seller (900 miles closer
then GBI to my home) and GBI is left out in the cold with nothing but
goodwill to show for it.  I feel it is a valid concern that Stan raises and
my situation was very similar to yours in that there was only so much money
in the boat purchasing budget with no allotment for the 5% service charge
discovered after the fact.  Like I said... a real conundrum for a newcomer.

My unilateral decision made without any threat of retaliation or any undue
duress from any party at the time was that while 5% was not available, I
would send a check for $200.00 to compensate GBI for their information
package, postage and time.  The result was that I felt better about it and
GBI to their credit, has ALWAYS answered my emails and has sold me two (2)
brand new sails and a few other parts, very promptly and hopefully at a
profit.   I think they would have done it anyway without the $200 because
they are good people.  Over time I have tried to be supportive as possible.
 For instance,  I chose to buy new sails from GBI because I knew they would
fit my boat and furler-but just as important, I WANTED GBI to make money on
it.  You can shop sails, I DIDN'T.  It is important to to support GBI who in
turn would hopefully be around to support you.

Fast forward to today...

If one ventures onto sailingtexas.com and I invite everyone to do so often,
you will find that about every other ad is now a price reduction.  The used
sailboat market is finally experiencing what the new boat market has for
several years.  If you have to sell, the C of S is going to be a definite
factor in a slow market.  If I have to sell, I am going to tell prospective
buyers that I am willing to participate in the C of S program, but that it
will affect the final negotiated price.  That will cost me a few buyers no
doubt.  So be it.

All that being said...  I am still willing to pay the seller's share (5%) if
I sell my boat-which I may have to in the present environment.  Quite
simply, GBI needs to stay in business for the benefit of my fellow owners,
future new boat owners and the lucky person who gets my boat.  So I have
drunk the Kool-Aid, but there are still some questions that need to be asked
and if I were buying, I would ask them.  Mainly, WHAT AM I GETTING FOR MY
MONEY?

What do owners (prospective sellers) think about these issues?

1.)  >"We know some still think we are nuts to expect residuals since a boat
is not a book or a song or a copyrighted photograph." >

I don't think it's nuts but it is unique.... As such, would it be a good
idea for GBI to address the C of S program directly on the Rhodes 22
website?   Should they say publicly to prospective used buyers who engage in
private, third party transactions sans GBI-NO C of S, NO SUPPORT?  What are
the specifics regarding technical support and parts?  Do they owe that duty
to us who pay to be in the program, shoulder the financial burden of it and
then may eventually have to evangelize it to future buyers?

2.)  >"Of course you can do as you like, and so can we. So if you elect to
sell your boat privately without going with the C of S program, and tell the
 buyer to call us anytime at home or at the plant, if they have
any questions, from now on we are simply going to re-direct them back to
you.">

So If a buyer chooses not to participate in the C of S program and is
willing to be banished into the desert of "previous owner support", will GBI
still sell them proprietary parts at non-astronomical prices without
technical support?  Or will GBI not sell the parts either?  What if a buyer
chooses not to participate, should the seller still pay their share even
though no C of S will issue?

3.)  How is the C of S fee to be calculated?  Should it be the whole
purchase price including third party items such as outboards or just the
boat or boat and trailer?

 >"We think the C of S it is a win, win solution to a growing problem
and recommend it to private sellers and private buyers...... so we continue
to be willing to debate this tired issue with any takers.">

Don't want to debate it-I'm convinced, but would like to have specifics to
tell prospective buyers with public descriptions and assurances from GBI to
verify the accuracy of my statements.

Thanks owners and I hope I don't have to sell.

David Culp


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:09:47 -0400
From: Matthew Porter <matthewporter27 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 82 Rhodes22 for sale
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
       <AANLkTi=DLwHqYhtSJKyQh1vP8cbxNbr3=tvxWNmuOG=z at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi All,

In the effort to provide a newcomer's perspective, I'd like to point out
that new owners may be unaware that such a debate has been taking place.  As
the (broke) new owner of an inherited boat, the cost of a Certificate is
prohibitive, but I would be more than happy to pay for the time of an
experienced and knowledgeable Rhodes builder (or even Rhodes captain) on an
hourly basis.

And to comment on Elle's response from the other thread, there is a
difference between explaining a business policy and chastizing a potential
customer (or any person for that matter) for asking a question without
knowing the complex history of the answer.

An hourly fee for sage advice would help in two areas.  First, the newcomer
may not have any knowledge of how the company operates, or its plan of
succession.  The Certificate may be valid for a lifetime of sailing, but as
with any small business, the question of who will be there in the future to
provide that advice is important.  Second, as with many pay-as-you-go
scenarios, the customer often recognizes the true value of the expert's
time, and may realize what a deal the Certificate represents.

Oh, and to give a brief summary of my first few months with our boat: she's
beautiful and functional; great for the Severn River; perfect for a new
sailor/captain; and she sure can take a whack on the bow pulpit/anchor.

Matt Porter
'95/recycled '02



On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Charles Nieman <blue66corvette at hotmail.com
> wrote:

>
> Thanks for the explaination ....
> not planning on selling anytime soon ....
> after all I have only had the boat 15 years ....
> still breaking it in!
>
> > From: stan at rhodes22.com
> > Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:16:28 -0400
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 82 Rhodes22 for sale
> >
> > Charles,
> >
> > it's a phasing-in consideration.
> >
> > 15 years and you become a pet
> > But when and if you go to sell your boat privately, that is a new ball
> game.
> >
> > Of course you can do as you like, and so can we. So if you elect to sell
> your boat privately without going with the C of S program, and tell the
> buyer to call us anytime at home or at the plant, if they have any
> questions, from now on we are simply going to re-direct them back to you.
> >
> > We think the C of S it is a win, win solution to a growing problem and
> recommend it to private sellers and private buyers. We know some still
think
> we are nuts to expect residuals since a boat is not a book or a song or a
> copyrighted photograph, so we continue to be willing to debate this tired
> issue with any takers.
> >
> > ss/gbi
> >
> > On Aug 23, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Charles Nieman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Stan
> > > Since I bought a recycled boat from you (albeit fifteen years ago)
does
> that mean I have "Certificate of Support" now?..... doe sthe response and
> attention you have been giving me represent what can be expected with said
> certificate?
> > >
> > >> From: stan at rhodes22.com
> > >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:30:46 -0400
> > >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 82 Rhodes22 for sale