[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

R22RumRunner at aol.com R22RumRunner at aol.com
Thu Nov 4 14:28:46 EDT 2010


Ben,
Right. Another piece of wisdom passed down from our federal government. I  
can't remember the last time I saw a 22 foot battle ship or maybe a 22 foot  
aircraft carrier. Kinda reminds me of my favorite government saying: Hi, 
I'm  from the government and I'm here to help you. Get real man. Life lines on 
a 22  foot sailboat is just plain stupid. To say nothing about their 
appearance. The  R22 is a good looking craft. Don't turn it into a garbage scow 
with life lines.  If you can't stay put on a 22 foot sailboat you deserve to 
get dunked. Life  lines won't fix stupid.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:13:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
bencittadino at gmail.com writes:


Rummy & Dave;

I remember being taught in the USN to  NEVER sit upon, lean against, or even
touch the life line railings aboard  ship. The only time anyone should touch
them is when maintaining or  repairing them. The idea is they are only there
as a last resort and if you  have to grab them you shouldn't be out there to
begin with.

I would  never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you from
going  overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money,  but
remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain,  or
reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really  need
them.

BenC
s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no  railings)

R22RumRunner wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> Unless you  have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my 
2  
>  cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>   
> Rummy
>  
>  
> In a message dated  11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
> 
> Rummy, I  think the  railings are okay.  They make great hangers for the
> fenders   at the dock.  [?]
> I could do without them, but my wife  likes  them.  They are handy to lean
> against a little, for  balance, when  cleaning or doing various chores
> about
> the  boat.
> When under sail,  actually they don't get in the way or  interfere with 
the
> 175.  They  virtually touch the outer  stays, and the sail could not go in
> further  anyway.
> The  one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process  of
>  tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to   
go
> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with  it  
> remotely.
> However, I would be interested in the  views of others that have  rails.  
I
> was planning to order  them on my new R22, but I could be  persuaded 
either
> way, if the  Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an  unlikely event).
>  Dave
> 
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM,   <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dave,
>> The  fact that  you have the side railings makes your boat a  completely
>> different  animal. I have never sailed on one with  the railings, but I
>> can
>>  imagine the problems you  will encounter with them. You might ask for  
> advice
>>  from
>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't  like  them on a 22 
foot
>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on  a  larger boat, but I
>> understand
>> why  they  might be needed.  Your inability to make the 175 work for you
>>  is
>> directly  related  to the railings. You might want to  consider replacing
>> your
>>  furling drum  with  one that allows a complete sail change on the  fly,
>>  unlike
>> the GB  furler.
>>
>>   Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go  up.
>>
>>
>> In  a message dated 11/3/2010  12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com  writes:
>>
>> Lee,  thanks for your   comments.  I may give you a call, as I will have 
 
>  to
>> decide  which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared  to the 175 I
>>   have
>> been using.  Last  weekend the wind was mild but  steady--about 5   mph.
>>  Using
>> the full 175 was very   pleasant.  But in gusty or  changeable winds (our
>>   most
>> common lake condition), and where sailing close  hauled  is  important,
>> the
>> 175
>> is simply too  much sail area too far  forward,  and even when largely
>>  furled,
>> the boat doesn't  point well--worse than all   the other boats that I 
see.
>> Unless  the genoa is furled way  in, I don't see  how I could lead the  
> sheets
>>  through the inner guides on the deck, inside  the  shrouds.  I  was 
> surprised
>> that you mentioned that the   smaller  genoa would be closer to the 
deck.  
> I
>>  haven't seen  one, but I assumed  that the 130/140/150 sizes would  
simply 
> be
>>  made in their smaller sizes by   shortening or raising the foot of the  
>  sail.
>>
>> I also use my full 175 less  than 20% of  the time,  and when I am on a 
> reach
>> in mild weather  conditions,  it is a  very nice sail.  So if you can 
keep  
> a
>> decent sail shape and   still furl it way in  for other conditions and
>> re-route
>> the  sheets to  one of  the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>   multi-purpose compromise for a  sail.  80% of the time, I have the  
>> genoa
>> furled in to greater or  lesser degrees,  and I am telling  myself that 
> next
>> time I am going  to have a  smaller  sail.
>>
>> I also have the  steel side rails, which are very   convenient, but the
>>  sheets
>> do often catch between the rails  and the stays   on tacking, and I have
>> to
>> go
>> forward  and  free them up.  This is  avoided by furling in  
substantially
>>  just
>> before tacking, and then  letting  the sail back out, but a  smaller sail
>>  would
>> be just that much more    convenient.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Mon, Nov  1, 2010 at 2:33  PM, KUHN, LELAND  <LKUHN at cnmc.org>  wrote:
>>
>> >  Dave,
>> >
>>  > "I have  never
>> > liked the 175  genoa very much  because I can't sail nearly as  close 
to
>> >   the
>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on  our   lake."
>> >
>> > I don't think a  smaller Genoa will help you  sail closer  to the wind
>>  as
>> > much as re-routing your  sheets.  You still  won't  be able to pull 
your
>> > jib or  smaller Genoa  closer to the center of your  boat if your 
sheets
>>  >  are run outside of the outer  shroud.
>> >
>> >  As  for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as  tight as  a  
> smaller
>> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa won't  have as much   rolled-up bulk around the
>> > furler and  the sail will be closer to  the  deck, which will  probably
>> > improve performance slightly  if you're on  a  close reach.
>> >
>> > The primary  reason  I would opt for a smaller  Genoa is because I use 
>  the
>> > full  175% sail less than 20% of the   time.  When I do use the full 
> 175%  I
>> >  swear I'll never go with  anything smaller.
>>   >
>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to   discuss  upwind 
> performance.
>> >  202.476.5369
>> >
>> >  Good   luck!
>> >
>> > Lee
>> > 1986   Rhodes22  AT EASE
>> > Kent  Island, MD
>>  >
>>  >
>> >
>> > -----Original  Message-----
>> >   From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> >    [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of  
Rhodes22Dave
>>  >  Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51  PM
>> > To:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>  > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Sailing  Upwind
>>  >
>> >
>> > Interesting. I  will try  this.  I also  thought that re-routing the 
>  genoa
>>  > sheets inside the shrouds would just  get  the sail caught.  I  have 
> never
>> > liked the  175 genoa very much  because I can't  sail nearly as close  
to
>> > the
>> > wind as any of   hundreds  of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
>> >    little
>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller  exposed  sail  
> area--but
>> > at a
>>  > cost of sail shape with  all the furling.   I may get a  second R22 
and 
> am
>> >  thinking of getting a  smaller genoa--or  adding the self-tending  
jib.
>> >  But
>> > what you suggest might be a  solution,  at  least for long tacks.
>> > Dave
>> >
>> >  Ben  Cittadino  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I  had two days in a  row on Sandy Hook Bay in  NJ this weekend, and 
 I
>> >  want
>> > > to report that I had  a  pleasing experience by  "finally" 
re-routing 
>  the
>> > > Jib (175 Genny)  sheets inside  the outer  shrouds to try for better
>> > upwind
>> >   >  sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but  
I  
> was
>> >  > delighted to get inside 45  degrees at last. I  obviously didn't let
>>   the
>> > > Genny out to the full  175, but at 100 we flew  along and I  felt 
like 
> I
>> > > could  make  real headway upwind. I had delayed trying  the new 
route 
>  for
>>  > > the sheets because I thought the sail would  get  all hung up in  
the
>> > > shrouds, but it's  become no big deal. Try it,   you'll like it.
>> >  >
>> > >
>> > >
>>  >  >  BenCittadino
>> > >
>> > > S/V Susan  Kay  ('93 recycled  '08)
>> > >
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> > >
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >   >
>> >  >
>> > >   __________________________________________________
>>  >   >
>> > >
>> > >
>>  >
>> > --
>>  > View this message in   context:
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