[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

Michael D. Weisner mweisner at ebsmed.com
Thu Nov 4 14:43:35 EDT 2010


Rummy,

Well, OK, not a 22' carrier but how about a 16' 1/72 scale model of the USS 
Enterprise:
http://www.carrierbuilders.net/gallery/20070318_USS_Enterprise_1-72/20070318_USS_Enterprise_1-72.htm

Nope.  Don't see any lifelines....

Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY

From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com> Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:28 PM
> Ben,
> Right. Another piece of wisdom passed down from our federal government. I
> can't remember the last time I saw a 22 foot battle ship or maybe a 22 
> foot
> aircraft carrier. Kinda reminds me of my favorite government saying: Hi,
> I'm  from the government and I'm here to help you. Get real man. Life 
> lines on
> a 22  foot sailboat is just plain stupid. To say nothing about their
> appearance. The  R22 is a good looking craft. Don't turn it into a garbage 
> scow
> with life lines.  If you can't stay put on a 22 foot sailboat you deserve 
> to
> get dunked. Life  lines won't fix stupid.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:13:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Rummy & Dave;
>
> I remember being taught in the USN to  NEVER sit upon, lean against, or 
> even
> touch the life line railings aboard  ship. The only time anyone should 
> touch
> them is when maintaining or  repairing them. The idea is they are only 
> there
> as a last resort and if you  have to grab them you shouldn't be out there 
> to
> begin with.
>
> I would  never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you from
> going  overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money, 
> but
> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain,  or
> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really 
> need
> them.
>
> BenC
> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no  railings)
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>> Unless you  have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my
> 2
>>  cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated  11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Rummy, I  think the  railings are okay.  They make great hangers for the
>> fenders   at the dock.  [?]
>> I could do without them, but my wife  likes  them.  They are handy to 
>> lean
>> against a little, for  balance, when  cleaning or doing various chores
>> about
>> the  boat.
>> When under sail,  actually they don't get in the way or  interfere with
> the
>> 175.  They  virtually touch the outer  stays, and the sail could not go 
>> in
>> further  anyway.
>> The  one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process  of
>>  tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
> go
>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with  it
>> remotely.
>> However, I would be interested in the  views of others that have  rails.
> I
>> was planning to order  them on my new R22, but I could be  persuaded
> either
>> way, if the  Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an  unlikely 
>> event).
>>  Dave
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM,   <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave,
>>> The  fact that  you have the side railings makes your boat a  completely
>>> different  animal. I have never sailed on one with  the railings, but I
>>> can
>>>  imagine the problems you  will encounter with them. You might ask for
>> advice
>>>  from
>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't  like  them on a 22
> foot
>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on  a  larger boat, but I
>>> understand
>>> why  they  might be needed.  Your inability to make the 175 work for you
>>>  is
>>> directly  related  to the railings. You might want to  consider 
>>> replacing
>>> your
>>>  furling drum  with  one that allows a complete sail change on the  fly,
>>>  unlike
>>> the GB  furler.
>>>
>>>   Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go  up.
>>>
>>>
>>> In  a message dated 11/3/2010  12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com  writes:
>>>
>>> Lee,  thanks for your   comments.  I may give you a call, as I will have
>
>>  to
>>> decide  which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared  to the 175 I
>>>   have
>>> been using.  Last  weekend the wind was mild but  steady--about 5   mph.
>>>  Using
>>> the full 175 was very   pleasant.  But in gusty or  changeable winds 
>>> (our
>>>   most
>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close  hauled  is  important,
>>> the
>>> 175
>>> is simply too  much sail area too far  forward,  and even when largely
>>>  furled,
>>> the boat doesn't  point well--worse than all   the other boats that I
> see.
>>> Unless  the genoa is furled way  in, I don't see  how I could lead the
>> sheets
>>>  through the inner guides on the deck, inside  the  shrouds.  I  was
>> surprised
>>> that you mentioned that the   smaller  genoa would be closer to the
> deck.
>> I
>>>  haven't seen  one, but I assumed  that the 130/140/150 sizes would
> simply
>> be
>>>  made in their smaller sizes by   shortening or raising the foot of the
>>  sail.
>>>
>>> I also use my full 175 less  than 20% of  the time,  and when I am on a
>> reach
>>> in mild weather  conditions,  it is a  very nice sail.  So if you can
> keep
>> a
>>> decent sail shape and   still furl it way in  for other conditions and
>>> re-route
>>> the  sheets to  one of  the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>>   multi-purpose compromise for a  sail.  80% of the time, I have the
>>> genoa
>>> furled in to greater or  lesser degrees,  and I am telling  myself that
>> next
>>> time I am going  to have a  smaller  sail.
>>>
>>> I also have the  steel side rails, which are very   convenient, but the
>>>  sheets
>>> do often catch between the rails  and the stays   on tacking, and I have
>>> to
>>> go
>>> forward  and  free them up.  This is  avoided by furling in
> substantially
>>>  just
>>> before tacking, and then  letting  the sail back out, but a  smaller 
>>> sail
>>>  would
>>> be just that much more    convenient.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov  1, 2010 at 2:33  PM, KUHN, LELAND  <LKUHN at cnmc.org>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Dave,
>>> >
>>>  > "I have  never
>>> > liked the 175  genoa very much  because I can't sail nearly as  close
> to
>>> >   the
>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on  our   lake."
>>> >
>>> > I don't think a  smaller Genoa will help you  sail closer  to the wind
>>>  as
>>> > much as re-routing your  sheets.  You still  won't  be able to pull
> your
>>> > jib or  smaller Genoa  closer to the center of your  boat if your
> sheets
>>>  >  are run outside of the outer  shroud.
>>> >
>>> >  As  for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as  tight as  a
>> smaller
>>> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa won't  have as much   rolled-up bulk around 
>>> > the
>>> > furler and  the sail will be closer to  the  deck, which will 
>>> > probably
>>> > improve performance slightly  if you're on  a  close reach.
>>> >
>>> > The primary  reason  I would opt for a smaller  Genoa is because I use
>>  the
>>> > full  175% sail less than 20% of the   time.  When I do use the full
>> 175%  I
>>> >  swear I'll never go with  anything smaller.
>>>   >
>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to   discuss  upwind
>> performance.
>>> >  202.476.5369
>>> >
>>> >  Good   luck!
>>> >
>>> > Lee
>>> > 1986   Rhodes22  AT EASE
>>> > Kent  Island, MD
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original  Message-----
>>> >   From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> >    [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
> Rhodes22Dave
>>>  >  Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51  PM
>>> > To:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>  > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Sailing  Upwind
>>>  >
>>> >
>>> > Interesting. I  will try  this.  I also  thought that re-routing the
>>  genoa
>>>  > sheets inside the shrouds would just  get  the sail caught.  I  have
>> never
>>> > liked the  175 genoa very much  because I can't  sail nearly as close
> to
>>> > the
>>> > wind as any of   hundreds  of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
>>> >    little
>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller  exposed  sail
>> area--but
>>> > at a
>>>  > cost of sail shape with  all the furling.   I may get a  second R22
> and
>> am
>>> >  thinking of getting a  smaller genoa--or  adding the self-tending
> jib.
>>> >  But
>>> > what you suggest might be a  solution,  at  least for long tacks.
>>> > Dave
>>> >
>>> >  Ben  Cittadino  wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I  had two days in a  row on Sandy Hook Bay in  NJ this weekend, and
> I
>>> >  want
>>> > > to report that I had  a  pleasing experience by  "finally"
> re-routing
>>  the
>>> > > Jib (175 Genny)  sheets inside  the outer  shrouds to try for better
>>> > upwind
>>> >   >  sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
> I
>> was
>>> >  > delighted to get inside 45  degrees at last. I  obviously didn't 
>>> > let
>>>   the
>>> > > Genny out to the full  175, but at 100 we flew  along and I  felt
> like
>> I
>>> > > could  make  real headway upwind. I had delayed trying  the new
> route
>>  for
>>>  > > the sheets because I thought the sail would  get  all hung up in
> the
>>> > > shrouds, but it's  become no big deal. Try it,   you'll like it.
>>> >  >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>  >  >  BenCittadino
>>> > >
>>> > > S/V Susan  Kay  ('93 recycled  '08)
>>> > >
>>> >  >
>>> >  >
>>> > >
>>> >  >
>>> >  >
>>> >  >
>>> >  >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >   >
>>> >  >
>>> > >   __________________________________________________
>>>  >   >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>  >
>>> > --
>>>  > View this message in   context:
>>> >    http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
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>
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