[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

BenCittadino bencittadino at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 14:58:34 EDT 2010


MIke;

I love that model. How did you come across it? Very impressive. Are you a
modeler?

BenC

R22MikeW wrote:
> 
> Ben,
> 
> Most life lines are too low anyway to keep a 6' adult on board.
> 
> Now, how about increasing the width of the walkway to accommodate a walker 
> ...
> 
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
> 
> From: "BenCittadino"  Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 PM
>>
>> Rummy & Dave;
>>
>> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against, or 
>> even
>> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should 
>> touch
>> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are only 
>> there
>> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out there 
>> to
>> begin with.
>>
>> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you from
>> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money,
>> but
>> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
>> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really
>> need
>> them.
>>
>> BenC
>> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
>>
>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my
>>> 2
>>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Rummy, I  think the railings are okay.  They make great hangers for the
>>> fenders  at the dock.  [?]
>>> I could do without them, but my wife likes  them.  They are handy to
>>> lean
>>> against a little, for balance, when  cleaning or doing various chores
>>> about
>>> the boat.
>>> When under sail,  actually they don't get in the way or interfere with 
>>> the
>>> 175.  They  virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
>>> in
>>> further  anyway.
>>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process  of
>>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to 
>>> go
>>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
>>> remotely.
>>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have  rails. 
>>> I
>>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be  persuaded 
>>> either
>>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an  unlikely
>>> event).
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM,  <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>> The fact that  you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
>>>> different  animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I
>>>> can
>>>>  imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
>>> advice
>>>> from
>>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't  like them on a 22 
>>>> foot
>>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a  larger boat, but I
>>>> understand
>>>> why  they might be needed.  Your inability to make the 175 work for you
>>>> is
>>>> directly  related  to the railings. You might want to consider
>>>> replacing
>>>> your
>>>>  furling drum  with one that allows a complete sail change on the  fly,
>>>> unlike
>>>> the GB  furler.
>>>>
>>>>  Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In  a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Lee,  thanks for your  comments.  I may give you a call, as I will have
>>> to
>>>> decide  which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175 I
>>>>   have
>>>> been using.  Last weekend the wind was mild but  steady--about 5  mph.
>>>>  Using
>>>> the full 175 was very  pleasant.  But in gusty or  changeable winds
>>>> (our
>>>>  most
>>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close  hauled is  important,
>>>> the
>>>> 175
>>>> is simply too much sail area too far  forward,  and even when largely
>>>> furled,
>>>> the boat doesn't  point well--worse than all  the other boats that I 
>>>> see.
>>>> Unless  the genoa is furled way in, I don't see  how I could lead the
>>> sheets
>>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside  the  shrouds.  I was
>>> surprised
>>>> that you mentioned that the  smaller  genoa would be closer to the
>>>> deck.
>>> I
>>>> haven't seen  one, but I assumed  that the 130/140/150 sizes would 
>>>> simply
>>> be
>>>>  made in their smaller sizes by  shortening or raising the foot of the
>>> sail.
>>>>
>>>> I also use my full 175 less  than 20% of the time,  and when I am on a
>>> reach
>>>> in mild weather conditions,  it is a  very nice sail.  So if you can 
>>>> keep
>>> a
>>>> decent sail shape and   still furl it way in for other conditions and
>>>> re-route
>>>> the  sheets to one of  the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>>>  multi-purpose compromise for a  sail.  80% of the time, I have the
>>>> genoa
>>>> furled in to greater or  lesser degrees, and I am telling  myself that
>>> next
>>>> time I am going to have a  smaller  sail.
>>>>
>>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very   convenient, but the
>>>> sheets
>>>> do often catch between the rails  and the stays  on tacking, and I have
>>>> to
>>>> go
>>>> forward and  free them up.  This is  avoided by furling in
>>>> substantially
>>>>  just
>>>> before tacking, and then letting  the sail back out, but a  smaller
>>>> sail
>>>> would
>>>> be just that much more   convenient.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33  PM, KUHN, LELAND  <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >  Dave,
>>>> >
>>>> > "I have  never
>>>> > liked the 175  genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as  close 
>>>> > to
>>>> >  the
>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our   lake."
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you  sail closer  to the wind
>>>> as
>>>> > much as re-routing your  sheets.  You still won't  be able to pull 
>>>> > your
>>>> > jib or  smaller Genoa closer to the center of your  boat if your 
>>>> > sheets
>>>>  > are run outside of the outer  shroud.
>>>> >
>>>> > As  for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as  tight as a
>>> smaller
>>>> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa won't have as much   rolled-up bulk around
>>>> the
>>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to  the  deck, which will probably
>>>> > improve performance slightly  if you're on a  close reach.
>>>> >
>>>> > The primary reason  I would opt for a smaller  Genoa is because I use
>>> the
>>>> > full  175% sail less than 20% of the  time.  When I do use the full
>>> 175%  I
>>>> > swear I'll never go with  anything smaller.
>>>>  >
>>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to  discuss  upwind
>>> performance.
>>>> > 202.476.5369
>>>> >
>>>> >  Good  luck!
>>>> >
>>>> > Lee
>>>> > 1986  Rhodes22  AT EASE
>>>> > Kent  Island, MD
>>>> >
>>>>  >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> >   From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> >   [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> > Rhodes22Dave
>>>>  >  Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
>>>> > To:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Sailing  Upwind
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Interesting. I  will try this.  I also  thought that re-routing the
>>> genoa
>>>>  > sheets inside the shrouds would just  get the sail caught.  I  have
>>> never
>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much  because I can't  sail nearly as close 
>>>> > to
>>>> > the
>>>> > wind as any of   hundreds of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
>>>> >   little
>>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed  sail
>>> area--but
>>>> > at a
>>>> > cost of sail shape with  all the furling.   I may get a second R22
>>>> and
>>> am
>>>> >  thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or  adding the self-tending 
>>>> > jib.
>>>> > But
>>>> > what you suggest might be a  solution,  at least for long tacks.
>>>> > Dave
>>>> >
>>>> > Ben  Cittadino  wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I had two days in a  row on Sandy Hook Bay in  NJ this weekend, and 
>>>> > > I
>>>> >  want
>>>> > > to report that I had a  pleasing experience by  "finally"
>>>> re-routing
>>> the
>>>> > > Jib (175 Genny)  sheets inside  the outer shrouds to try for better
>>>> > upwind
>>>> >  >  sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
>>>> I
>>> was
>>>> >  > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I  obviously didn't
>>>> let
>>>>  the
>>>> > > Genny out to the full  175, but at 100 we flew along and I  felt 
>>>> > > like
>>> I
>>>> > > could  make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying  the new
>>>> route
>>> for
>>>>  > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get  all hung up in 
>>>> the
>>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it,   you'll like it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>>  > >  BenCittadino
>>>> > >
>>>> > > S/V Susan Kay  ('93 recycled  '08)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >  >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >  >
>>>> >  >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >  >
>>>> >  >
>>>> > >  __________________________________________________
>>>> >   >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>>  > View this message in  context:
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>>>>  >
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>>
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>>
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> 
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