[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
BenCittadino
bencittadino at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 15:58:13 EDT 2010
I was a 21 year old "boot" Ensign. Now that shuttle program with 1960's
technology is a program I could shut down to save a few bucks.
R22RumRunner wrote:
>
> Ben,
> I never wait for the sun to set before drinking. My favorite line is that
> it's noon somewhere. I've been stuck in Daytona Beach since last Friday
> waiting for the freeking shuttle to blast off. I've already been thrown
> out of
> most bars in this crappy sea side town and am now relegated to drinking
> in
> my hotel room. I found a really good source for rum at a local ABC store.
> Mt. Gay is only $22.00 a bottle. That's almost ten bucks cheaper than I
> can
> buy it at home. Needless to say, there won't be any empty space in the
> wife's car when we do finally go home.
> So, if the ship was nineteen years old when you were on it, how old were
> you? Just for the record, 52 degrees is just the beginning of a good heal.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:53:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Rummy;
>
> I see I made the error of failing to wait until the sun dropped below the
> yardarm to post when you might be in a more mellow frame of mind.
> Actually,
> my navy ship was only 171' long and I was on the bridge when we took a 52
> degree roll in a storm. I thought we were going over all the way and said
> the fastest "Hail Mary" in the history of that prayer. It seemed to take
> forever but we came back up to vertical. By the way, my ship was designed
> by
> ....(drum roll)....(wait for it).....Philip Rhodes. It was an MSO
> (minesweeper, ocean going), built in 1951 (she was 19 years old when I
> reported aboard).
>
> Thanks Caesar. I feel slightly less stupid.
>
> BenC
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>
>> Ben,
>> Right. Another piece of wisdom passed down from our federal government.
> I
>> can't remember the last time I saw a 22 foot battle ship or maybe a 22
>> foot
>> aircraft carrier. Kinda reminds me of my favorite government saying: Hi,
>
>> I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. Get real man. Life
>> lines on
>> a 22 foot sailboat is just plain stupid. To say nothing about their
>> appearance. The R22 is a good looking craft. Don't turn it into a
> garbage
>> scow
>> with life lines. If you can't stay put on a 22 foot sailboat you
>> deserve
>> to
>> get dunked. Life lines won't fix stupid.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:13:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>> Rummy & Dave;
>>
>> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against, or
>> even
>> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should
>> touch
>> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are only
>> there
>> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out
>> there
>> to
>> begin with.
>>
>> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you
> from
>> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money,
>> but
>> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
>> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really
>> need
>> them.
>>
>> BenC
>> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
>>
>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just
> my
>> 2
>>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for
>>> the
>>> fenders at the dock. [?]
>>> I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy to
>>> lean
>>> against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores
>>> about
>>> the boat.
>>> When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
>
>> the
>>> 175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
>>> in
>>> further anyway.
>>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
>>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
>
>> go
>>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
>>> remotely.
>>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have
> rails.
>> I
>>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
>> either
>>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely
>>> event).
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a
> completely
>>>> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but
>>>> I
>>>> can
>>>> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
>
>>> advice
>>>> from
>>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22
>> foot
>>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
>>>> understand
>>>> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for
> you
>>>> is
>>>> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider
>>>> replacing
>>>> your
>>>> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the
> fly,
>>>> unlike
>>>> the GB furler.
>>>>
>>>> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will
> have
>>
>>> to
>>>> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the
> 175 I
>>>> have
>>>> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5
> mph.
>>>> Using
>>>> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable winds
>>>> (our
>>>> most
>>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is
> important,
>>>> the
>>>> 175
>>>> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when
>>>> largely
>>>> furled,
>>>> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that I
>> see.
>>>> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead the
>
>>> sheets
>>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I was
>>> surprised
>>>> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the
>> deck.
>>> I
>>>> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
>> simply
>>> be
>>>> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of
> the
>>> sail.
>>>>
>>>> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am on
> a
>>> reach
>>>> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you can
>> keep
>>> a
>>>> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions and
>>>> re-route
>>>> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>>> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
>>>> genoa
>>>> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself
> that
>>> next
>>>> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
>>>>
>>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but
>>>> the
>>>> sheets
>>>> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I
> have
>>>> to
>>>> go
>>>> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in
>> substantially
>>>> just
>>>> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller
>>>> sail
>>>> would
>>>> be just that much more convenient.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Dave,
>>>> >
>>>> > "I have never
>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as
> close
>> to
>>>> > the
>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the
> wind
>>>> as
>>>> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to pull
>> your
>>>> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
>> sheets
>>>> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
>>>> >
>>>> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a
>
>>> smaller
>>>> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around
>>>> the
>>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will
>>>> probably
>>>> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
>>>> >
>>>> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I
> use
>>> the
>>>> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the full
>>> 175% I
>>>> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
>>>> >
>>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
>>> performance.
>>>> > 202.476.5369
>>>> >
>>>> > Good luck!
>>>> >
>>>> > Lee
>>>> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>>> > Kent Island, MD
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>> Rhodes22Dave
>>>> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
>>>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing the
>
>>> genoa
>>>> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I
> have
>>> never
>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as
> close
>> to
>>>> > the
>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can do
> a
>>>> > little
>>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
>>> area--but
>>>> > at a
>>>> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second R22
>> and
>>> am
>>>> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
>> jib.
>>>> > But
>>>> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
>>>> > Dave
>>>> >
>>>> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend,
> and
>> I
>>>> > want
>>>> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
>> re-routing
>>> the
>>>> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for
> better
>>>> > upwind
>>>> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference,
> but
>> I
>>> was
>>>> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't
>>>> let
>>>> the
>>>> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
>> like
>>> I
>>>> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
>> route
>>> for
>>>> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
>> the
>>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > BenCittadino
>>>> > >
>>>> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > View this message in context:
>>>> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
>>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> >
>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>> >
>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives
>>>> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>> >
>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives
>>>> go
>>>> > to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>
>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>> archives
>>> go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>
>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives
>>>> go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: not available
>>> Type: image/png
>>> Size: 646 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> Url :
>>>
>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20101104/2d5d8591/attachment.png
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> archives
>> go
>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>>> go
>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30134738.html
>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>> go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30135075.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30135644.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list