[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

R22RumRunner at aol.com R22RumRunner at aol.com
Thu Nov 4 16:42:10 EDT 2010


Not a problem shutting the shuttle down. The last flight will happen on  
February 27th, 2011. I want to see one of those birds blast off before they  
mothball the fleet. Quite a good service record, all things considered. We're 
 here to see the last flight of "Discovery". Most of the NASA programs for 
the  future involve unmanned missions. They are cheaper to operate and can 
go further  distances. Voyager 1 and 2, launched in the 70's are still 
charging away from  our solar system at 320 million miles per year and continue to 
send back data.  We actually have more computing power in our cell phones 
than any of the  shuttle's main computers have. A few years back NASA was 
buying replacement  parts for their computers on E Bay. It wasn't cost 
effective to replace the old  computers with new because they would have had to 
rewrite all the software. 
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 11/4/2010 4:19:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
bencittadino at gmail.com writes:


I  was a 21 year old "boot" Ensign. Now that shuttle program with  1960's
technology is a program I could shut down to save a few bucks.   

R22RumRunner wrote:
> 
> Ben,
> I never wait for the  sun to set before drinking. My favorite line is 
that  
> it's noon  somewhere. I've been stuck in Daytona Beach since last Friday 
>  waiting  for the freeking shuttle to blast off. I've already been  thrown
> out of 
> most bars  in this crappy sea side town  and am now relegated to drinking
> in 
> my hotel room.  I  found a really good source for rum at a local ABC 
store. 
> Mt. Gay is  only  $22.00 a bottle. That's almost ten bucks cheaper than I
> can  
> buy it at home.  Needless to say, there won't be any empty space  in the 
> wife's car when we do  finally go home.
> So, if  the ship was nineteen years old when you were on it, how old were 
  
> you? Just for the record, 52 degrees is just the beginning of a good  
heal. 
>  
> Rummy
>  
>  
> In a  message dated 11/4/2010 2:53:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
>  bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> Rummy;
>  
> I see I made the error of failing to wait until  the sun dropped  below 
the
> yardarm to post when you might be in a more  mellow  frame of mind.
> Actually,
> my navy ship was only 171' long and I  was  on the bridge when we took a 
52
> degree roll in a storm. I  thought we were  going over all the way and 
said
> the fastest  "Hail Mary" in the history of  that prayer. It seemed to take
>  forever but we came back up to vertical. By  the way, my ship was  
designed 
> by
> ....(drum roll)....(wait for  it).....Philip  Rhodes. It was an MSO
> (minesweeper, ocean going), built in  1951  (she was 19 years old when I
> reported aboard).
> 
> Thanks  Caesar. I  feel slightly less stupid.
> 
> BenC   
> 
> R22RumRunner  wrote:
>> 
>>  Ben,
>> Right. Another piece of wisdom passed  down from our  federal 
government. 
> I  
>> can't remember the  last  time I saw a 22 foot battle ship or maybe a 22
>>  foot  
>>  aircraft carrier. Kinda reminds me of my  favorite government saying: 
Hi, 
>  
>> I'm  from the  government and I'm here to help you. Get real man.  Life
>>  lines on 
>> a 22  foot sailboat is just plain stupid.  To  say nothing about their 
>> appearance. The  R22 is a good   looking craft. Don't turn it into a 
> garbage
>> scow  
>> with life  lines.  If you can't stay put on a 22 foot  sailboat you
>> deserve
>>  to 
>> get dunked.  Life  lines won't fix stupid.
>>   
>>  Rummy
>>  
>>  
>> In a message  dated  11/4/2010 2:13:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,   
>>  bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>> 
>>  
>> Rummy &  Dave;
>> 
>> I remember being  taught in the USN to  NEVER sit  upon, lean against, or
>>  even
>> touch the life line railings  aboard  ship. The  only time anyone should
>> touch
>> them is  when  maintaining or  repairing them. The idea is they are  only
>>  there
>> as a last resort and if you   have to grab them you  shouldn't be out
>> there
>>  to
>> begin with.
>> 
>> I  would  never  tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you  
>  from
>> going  overboard only once in twenty years they can be  worth  the 
money, 
>> but
>> remember they are not  built for routine daily  stress and strain,  or
>>  reliance. You can look at them, but don't  touch them 'till you really  
>> need
>> them.
>> 
>>   BenC
>> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no   railings)
>>  
>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>  
>>> Dave,
>>> Unless  you  have small  children, I see no need for the railings. Just 
> my  
>>  2  
>>>  cents worth. I like to keep things both   simple and clean.
>>>   
>>>  Rummy
>>>   
>>>  
>>> In a  message dated  11/4/2010 1:01:42  A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,   
>>>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com  writes:
>>>  
>>> Rummy, I  think the  railings are  okay.   They make great hangers for
>>> the
>>>  fenders   at  the dock.  [?]
>>> I could do  without them, but my wife   likes  them.  They are handy  to
>>> lean
>>> against  a little, for   balance, when  cleaning or doing various  
chores
>>>  about
>>> the  boat.
>>> When under   sail,  actually they don't get in the way or  interfere 
with  
>  
>> the
>>> 175.  They   virtually touch the outer   stays, and the sail could not  
go
>>> in
>>> further    anyway.
>>> The  one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet  can,  in the process  of
>>>  tacking, get wedged  in between the  stay and the rail, requiring me 
to  
>   
>> go
>>> forward  and free it, or to jiggle the  line and try to fool with  it   
>>>  remotely.
>>> However, I would be interested in the    views of others that have  
> rails.  
>>  I
>>> was  planning to order  them on my new R22, but I  could be  persuaded  
>> either
>>> way, if  the  Commandant--my wife--could be  persuaded (an   unlikely
>>> event).
>>>    Dave
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM,   <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>>  Dave,
>>>> The  fact that   you have the side railings  makes your boat a  
>  completely
>>>> different  animal. I  have never  sailed on one with  the railings, but
>>>>  I
>>>>  can
>>>>  imagine the problems  you  will encounter with  them. You might ask 
for 
>   
>>> advice
>>>>    from
>>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I  don't   like  them on a 
22 
>>  foot
>>>> sailboat. In fact, I  don't even like them  on  a  larger boat, but I
>>>>   understand
>>>> why  they  might be needed.   Your  inability to make the 175 work for 
>  you
>>>>   is
>>>> directly   related  to the railings. You might  want to   consider
>>>> replacing
>>>>   your
>>>>  furling drum  with  one that allows  a  complete sail change on the  
>  fly,
>>>>   unlike
>>>> the  GB   furler.
>>>>
>>>>    Rummy.......still waiting  for the shuttle to go    up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In  a  message dated  11/3/2010  12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight  Time,
>>>>   rhodes22dave at gmail.com   writes:
>>>>
>>>>  Lee,  thanks for  your   comments.  I may give you a call,  as I will 
 
> have 
>>  
>>>   to
>>>>  decide  which sail to put on my R22 this  time, as compared  to the  
> 175  I
>>>>   have
>>>> been  using.   Last  weekend the wind was mild but   steady--about 5   
 
> mph.
>>>>   Using
>>>> the full 175 was  very    pleasant.  But in gusty or  changeable   
winds
>>>> (our
>>>>    most
>>>>  common lake condition), and where sailing  close  hauled  is   
>  important,
>>>> the
>>>> 175
>>>>  is simply  too  much sail area too far  forward,  and even  when 
>>>> largely
>>>>   furled,
>>>> the boat doesn't   point well--worse  than all   the other boats that 
I 
>>   see.
>>>> Unless  the genoa is furled way  in, I  don't  see  how I could lead 
the 
>  
>>>  sheets
>>>>   through the inner guides on the deck,  inside  the  shrouds.   I  
was 
>>>  surprised
>>>> that you mentioned that  the    smaller  genoa would be closer to the 
>>  deck.   
>>> I
>>>>  haven't seen  one, but  I  assumed  that the 130/140/150 sizes would  
>>  simply  
>>> be
>>>>  made in their  smaller sizes  by   shortening or raising the foot of 
>  the  
>>>    sail.
>>>>
>>>> I also use my full 175  less  than  20% of  the time,  and when I am 
on 
> a  
>>>  reach
>>>> in mild weather   conditions,  it is a   very nice sail.  So if you 
can  
>> keep  
>>>  a
>>>> decent  sail shape and   still furl it way in   for other  conditions 
and
>>>> re-route
>>>>  the   sheets to  one of  the inner paths, then it's  probably a  good
>>>>   multi-purpose compromise  for a   sail.  80% of the time, I have the 
  
>>>>  genoa
>>>> furled in to greater  or  lesser degrees,  and  I am telling  myself 
>  that 
>>> next
>>>> time I am  going  to  have a  smaller   sail.
>>>>
>>>>  I also have the  steel side rails,  which are very    convenient, but
>>>> the
>>>>    sheets
>>>> do often catch between the rails  and  the  stays   on tacking, and I 
>  have
>>>> to
>>>>  go
>>>>  forward  and  free them up.  This is   avoided by  furling in  
>> substantially
>>>>    just
>>>> before tacking, and then  letting  the  sail  back out, but a  smaller
>>>>  sail
>>>>   would
>>>> be just that  much more      convenient.
>>>>
>>>>   Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov  1, 2010 at  2:33   PM, KUHN, LELAND  <LKUHN at cnmc.org>    
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >   Dave,
>>>>  >
>>>>  > "I  have  never
>>>> > liked  the 175  genoa very  much  because I can't sail nearly as  
> close   
>> to
>>>> >   the
>>>>  > wind as  any of hundreds of other sailboats on  our   lake."
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't think  a  smaller  Genoa will help you  sail closer  to the  
> wind
>>>>   as
>>>> > much  as re-routing your  sheets.  You  still  won't  be  able to 
pull 
>> your
>>>> > jib  or   smaller Genoa  closer to the center of your  boat if your  
 
>> sheets
>>>>  >  are run outside of  the  outer  shroud.
>>>> >
>>>>  >  As   for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just  as  tight as  
a  
>  
>>>  smaller
>>>> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa   won't  have as much   rolled-up bulk  
around
>>>>  the
>>>> > furler and   the sail will be closer to   the  deck, which will  
>>>> probably
>>>> >  improve  performance slightly  if you're on  a  close   reach.
>>>> >
>>>> > The  primary   reason  I would opt for a smaller  Genoa is  because 
I 
> use  
>>>  the
>>>>  > full  175% sail less than 20%  of the   time.   When I do use the 
full 
>>> 175%   I
>>>>  >  swear I'll never go with  anything   smaller.
>>>>   >
>>>> > Feel  free to  give me a call if you'd like to   discuss  upwind  
>>>  performance.
>>>> >   202.476.5369
>>>>  >
>>>> >   Good   luck!
>>>>  >
>>>> >  Lee
>>>> > 1986    Rhodes22  AT  EASE
>>>> > Kent  Island,   MD
>>>>  >
>>>>   >
>>>>  >
>>>> >  -----Original  Message-----
>>>>  >    From:   rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>  >     [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf  Of  
>>  Rhodes22Dave
>>>>  >   Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010  11:51  PM
>>>> >  To:    rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>  >  Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list]  Sailing   Upwind
>>>>   >
>>>>  >
>>>> > Interesting. I  will  try   this.  I also  thought that re-routing 
the 
>   
>>>  genoa
>>>>  > sheets inside the  shrouds  would just  get  the sail caught.  I   
> have 
>>>  never
>>>> > liked  the  175 genoa very much  because I  can't  sail nearly as  
> close  
>> to
>>>> >   the
>>>> > wind as any of   hundreds  of  other  sailboats on our lake.  I can 
do 
>  a
>>>> >     little
>>>> >  better by furling in the genoa to a much  smaller  exposed   sail  
>>> area--but
>>>>  > at  a
>>>>  > cost of sail shape with  all the   furling.   I may get a  second 
R22 
>> and  
>>>  am
>>>> >  thinking of getting  a  smaller  genoa--or  adding the self-tending 
  
>> jib.
>>>>  >  But
>>>>  > what you suggest might be a   solution,  at  least  for long tacks.
>>>> >  Dave
>>>>  >
>>>> >  Ben  Cittadino    wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I  had  two  days in a  row on Sandy Hook Bay in  NJ this weekend, 
 
> and  
>>  I
>>>> >   want
>>>> > > to  report that I had  a   pleasing experience by  "finally"  
>> re-routing  
>>>  the
>>>> > > Jib (175   Genny)  sheets inside  the outer  shrouds to try for   
> better
>>>> > upwind
>>>>  >   >   sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect  much difference, 
> but   
>> I   
>>> was
>>>> >  > delighted to   get inside 45  degrees at last. I  obviously  
didn't
>>>>  let
>>>>    the
>>>> > > Genny out to the  full  175, but  at 100 we flew  along and I  
felt 
>> like   
>>> I
>>>> > > could  make  real  headway  upwind. I had delayed trying  the new 
>> route  
>>>   for
>>>>  > > the  sheets because I thought the sail  would  get  all hung up  
in  
>> the
>>>> >  > shrouds, but  it's  become no big deal. Try it,   you'll  like  
it.
>>>> >  >
>>>> >   >
>>>> > >
>>>>  >   >   BenCittadino
>>>> >  >
>>>> > > S/V  Susan  Kay  ('93  recycled  '08)
>>>> >  >
>>>>  >  >
>>>> >   >
>>>>  > >
>>>> >  >
>>>>   >  >
>>>> >  >
>>>>  >   >
>>>> > >
>>>> >  >
>>>>  >   >
>>>>  >  >
>>>> >  >     __________________________________________________
>>>>    >   >
>>>> > >
>>>>  >  >
>>>>  >
>>>> >  --
>>>>   > View this message in    context:
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>>>>    >  Sent  from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at    Nabble.com.
>>>>  >
>>>> >    __________________________________________________
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>>>>    >
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>>>  archives
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>>>>  go
>>>> >   to   http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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