[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
BenCittadino
bencittadino at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 16:57:02 EDT 2010
Rummy;
You know it occurs to me that I saw a Saturn "moon shot" sometime between
1970 and 1972 off Kennedy Space Center when we were assigned to "lifeguard"
duty. We were about 5-10 miles off shore and they flew right overhead. I
forget the Apollo number; I have a cloth patch someplace that they gave us.
Watching the launch will be worth the wait I'm sure. Anyhow that duty was a
heck-of-a-lot better than Vietnam would have been. I have no complaints.
BenC
R22RumRunner wrote:
>
> Not a problem shutting the shuttle down. The last flight will happen on
> February 27th, 2011. I want to see one of those birds blast off before
> they
> mothball the fleet. Quite a good service record, all things considered.
> We're
> here to see the last flight of "Discovery". Most of the NASA programs for
> the future involve unmanned missions. They are cheaper to operate and can
> go further distances. Voyager 1 and 2, launched in the 70's are still
> charging away from our solar system at 320 million miles per year and
> continue to
> send back data. We actually have more computing power in our cell phones
> than any of the shuttle's main computers have. A few years back NASA was
> buying replacement parts for their computers on E Bay. It wasn't cost
> effective to replace the old computers with new because they would have
> had to
> rewrite all the software.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/4/2010 4:19:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> I was a 21 year old "boot" Ensign. Now that shuttle program with 1960's
> technology is a program I could shut down to save a few bucks.
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>
>> Ben,
>> I never wait for the sun to set before drinking. My favorite line is
> that
>> it's noon somewhere. I've been stuck in Daytona Beach since last Friday
>> waiting for the freeking shuttle to blast off. I've already been
>> thrown
>> out of
>> most bars in this crappy sea side town and am now relegated to drinking
>> in
>> my hotel room. I found a really good source for rum at a local ABC
> store.
>> Mt. Gay is only $22.00 a bottle. That's almost ten bucks cheaper than I
>> can
>> buy it at home. Needless to say, there won't be any empty space in the
>> wife's car when we do finally go home.
>> So, if the ship was nineteen years old when you were on it, how old were
>
>> you? Just for the record, 52 degrees is just the beginning of a good
> heal.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:53:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>> Rummy;
>>
>> I see I made the error of failing to wait until the sun dropped below
> the
>> yardarm to post when you might be in a more mellow frame of mind.
>> Actually,
>> my navy ship was only 171' long and I was on the bridge when we took a
> 52
>> degree roll in a storm. I thought we were going over all the way and
> said
>> the fastest "Hail Mary" in the history of that prayer. It seemed to
>> take
>> forever but we came back up to vertical. By the way, my ship was
> designed
>> by
>> ....(drum roll)....(wait for it).....Philip Rhodes. It was an MSO
>> (minesweeper, ocean going), built in 1951 (she was 19 years old when I
>> reported aboard).
>>
>> Thanks Caesar. I feel slightly less stupid.
>>
>> BenC
>>
>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>
>>> Ben,
>>> Right. Another piece of wisdom passed down from our federal
> government.
>> I
>>> can't remember the last time I saw a 22 foot battle ship or maybe a 22
>>> foot
>>> aircraft carrier. Kinda reminds me of my favorite government saying:
> Hi,
>>
>>> I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. Get real man. Life
>>> lines on
>>> a 22 foot sailboat is just plain stupid. To say nothing about their
>>> appearance. The R22 is a good looking craft. Don't turn it into a
>> garbage
>>> scow
>>> with life lines. If you can't stay put on a 22 foot sailboat you
>>> deserve
>>> to
>>> get dunked. Life lines won't fix stupid.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:13:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> Rummy & Dave;
>>>
>>> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against,
>>> or
>>> even
>>> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should
>>> touch
>>> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are
>>> only
>>> there
>>> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out
>>> there
>>> to
>>> begin with.
>>>
>>> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you
>> from
>>> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the
> money,
>>> but
>>> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
>>> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really
>>> need
>>> them.
>>>
>>> BenC
>>> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
>>>
>>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just
>> my
>>> 2
>>>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>>>
>>>> Rummy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for
>>>> the
>>>> fenders at the dock. [?]
>>>> I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy
>>>> to
>>>> lean
>>>> against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various
> chores
>>>> about
>>>> the boat.
>>>> When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere
> with
>>
>>> the
>>>> 175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not
> go
>>>> in
>>>> further anyway.
>>>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process
>>>> of
>>>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me
> to
>>
>>> go
>>>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
>>>> remotely.
>>>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have
>> rails.
>>> I
>>>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
>>> either
>>>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely
>>>> event).
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a
>> completely
>>>>> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings,
>>>>> but
>>>>> I
>>>>> can
>>>>> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask
> for
>>
>>>> advice
>>>>> from
>>>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a
> 22
>>> foot
>>>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
>>>>> understand
>>>>> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for
>> you
>>>>> is
>>>>> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider
>>>>> replacing
>>>>> your
>>>>> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the
>> fly,
>>>>> unlike
>>>>> the GB furler.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will
>
>> have
>>>
>>>> to
>>>>> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the
>> 175 I
>>>>> have
>>>>> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5
>
>> mph.
>>>>> Using
>>>>> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable
> winds
>>>>> (our
>>>>> most
>>>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is
>> important,
>>>>> the
>>>>> 175
>>>>> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when
>>>>> largely
>>>>> furled,
>>>>> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that
> I
>>> see.
>>>>> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead
> the
>>
>>>> sheets
>>>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I
> was
>>>> surprised
>>>>> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the
>>> deck.
>>>> I
>>>>> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
>>> simply
>>>> be
>>>>> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of
>> the
>>>> sail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am
> on
>> a
>>>> reach
>>>>> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you
> can
>>> keep
>>>> a
>>>>> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions
> and
>>>>> re-route
>>>>> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>>>> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
>
>>>>> genoa
>>>>> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself
>> that
>>>> next
>>>>> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but
>>>>> the
>>>>> sheets
>>>>> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I
>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>> go
>>>>> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in
>>> substantially
>>>>> just
>>>>> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller
>>>>> sail
>>>>> would
>>>>> be just that much more convenient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Dave,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "I have never
>>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as
>> close
>>> to
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the
>> wind
>>>>> as
>>>>> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to
> pull
>>> your
>>>>> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
>
>>> sheets
>>>>> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as
> a
>>
>>>> smaller
>>>>> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk
> around
>>>>> the
>>>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will
>>>>> probably
>>>>> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because
> I
>> use
>>>> the
>>>>> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the
> full
>>>> 175% I
>>>>> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
>>>> performance.
>>>>> > 202.476.5369
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Good luck!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Lee
>>>>> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>>>> > Kent Island, MD
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Rhodes22Dave
>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
>>>>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing
> the
>>
>>>> genoa
>>>>> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I
>> have
>>>> never
>>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as
>> close
>>> to
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can
> do
>> a
>>>>> > little
>>>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
>>>> area--but
>>>>> > at a
>>>>> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second
> R22
>>> and
>>>> am
>>>>> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
>
>>> jib.
>>>>> > But
>>>>> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
>>>>> > Dave
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend,
>
>> and
>>> I
>>>>> > want
>>>>> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
>>> re-routing
>>>> the
>>>>> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for
>> better
>>>>> > upwind
>>>>> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference,
>> but
>>> I
>>>> was
>>>>> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously
> didn't
>>>>> let
>>>>> the
>>>>> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I
> felt
>>> like
>>>> I
>>>>> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
>>> route
>>>> for
>>>>> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up
> in
>>> the
>>>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like
> it.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > BenCittadino
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > View this message in context:
>>>>> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
>>>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives
>>>>> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives
>>>>> go
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>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>>>>>
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives
>>>> go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30134738.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
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>> go
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>>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
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>>
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>
> --
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>
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