[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
Rick
sloopblueheron at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 19:49:05 EDT 2010
Speaking of models, here's Blue Heron and her chick.
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>wrote:
> Ben,
>
> I mostly fly electric RC planes now, although I have an electric RC
> sailboat. It used to be fun to sail it behind my R22 when the seas were
> very calm.
>
> One of our club Grummanites has a very large carrier that he "sails" on
> Lake
> Ronkonkoma (on LI), I have done touch and goes on the deck with a small
> ducted fan "jet" for some great photos. Not enough room for landing (no
> arrester wire either) or taking off for these underpowered planes. If I
> can
> find the photos I will post to the list (real photos, need to scan them in
> someday). I only wish that we had videos but we were too far ahead of the
> technology (before battery powered camcorders).
>
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "BenCittadino" Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:58 PM
> >
> > MIke;
> >
> > I love that model. How did you come across it? Very impressive. Are you a
> > modeler?
> >
> > BenC
> >
> > R22MikeW wrote:
> >>
> >> Ben,
> >>
> >> Most life lines are too low anyway to keep a 6' adult on board.
> >>
> >> Now, how about increasing the width of the walkway to accommodate a
> >> walker
> >> ...
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> >> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>
> >> From: "BenCittadino" Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 PM
> >>>
> >>> Rummy & Dave;
> >>>
> >>> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against, or
> >>> even
> >>> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should
> >>> touch
> >>> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are only
> >>> there
> >>> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out
> there
> >>> to
> >>> begin with.
> >>>
> >>> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you
> from
> >>> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money,
> >>> but
> >>> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
> >>> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really
> >>> need
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> BenC
> >>> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
> >>>
> >>> R22RumRunner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave,
> >>>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just
> my
> >>>> 2
> >>>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rummy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
> >>>>
> >>>> Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for
> the
> >>>> fenders at the dock. [?]
> >>>> I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy to
> >>>> lean
> >>>> against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores
> >>>> about
> >>>> the boat.
> >>>> When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
> >>>> the
> >>>> 175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
> >>>> in
> >>>> further anyway.
> >>>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
> >>>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
> >>>> go
> >>>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
> >>>> remotely.
> >>>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have
> rails.
> >>>> I
> >>>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
> >>>> either
> >>>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely
> >>>> event).
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Dave,
> >>>>> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a
> completely
> >>>>> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but
> I
> >>>>> can
> >>>>> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
> >>>> advice
> >>>>> from
> >>>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22
> >>>>> foot
> >>>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
> >>>>> understand
> >>>>> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider
> >>>>> replacing
> >>>>> your
> >>>>> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the
> >>>>> fly,
> >>>>> unlike
> >>>>> the GB furler.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will
> >>>>> have
> >>>> to
> >>>>> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5
> mph.
> >>>>> Using
> >>>>> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable winds
> >>>>> (our
> >>>>> most
> >>>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is
> important,
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> 175
> >>>>> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when largely
> >>>>> furled,
> >>>>> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that I
> >>>>> see.
> >>>>> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead the
> >>>> sheets
> >>>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I was
> >>>> surprised
> >>>>> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the
> >>>>> deck.
> >>>> I
> >>>>> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
> >>>>> simply
> >>>> be
> >>>>> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of
> the
> >>>> sail.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am on
> a
> >>>> reach
> >>>>> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you can
> >>>>> keep
> >>>> a
> >>>>> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions and
> >>>>> re-route
> >>>>> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
> >>>>> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
> >>>>> genoa
> >>>>> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself
> that
> >>>> next
> >>>>> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but
> the
> >>>>> sheets
> >>>>> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> go
> >>>>> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in
> >>>>> substantially
> >>>>> just
> >>>>> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller
> >>>>> sail
> >>>>> would
> >>>>> be just that much more convenient.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Dave,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > "I have never
> >>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as
> close
> >>>>> > to
> >>>>> > the
> >>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the
> >>>>> > wind
> >>>>> as
> >>>>> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to pull
> >>>>> > your
> >>>>> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
> >>>>> > sheets
> >>>>> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a
> >>>> smaller
> >>>>> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will
> >>>>> > probably
> >>>>> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I
> >>>>> > use
> >>>> the
> >>>>> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the full
> >>>> 175% I
> >>>>> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
> >>>> performance.
> >>>>> > 202.476.5369
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Good luck!
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Lee
> >>>>> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> >>>>> > Kent Island, MD
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>>> > Rhodes22Dave
> >>>>> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
> >>>>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing the
> >>>> genoa
> >>>>> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I
> have
> >>>> never
> >>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as
> close
> >>>>> > to
> >>>>> > the
> >>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can do
> >>>>> > a
> >>>>> > little
> >>>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
> >>>> area--but
> >>>>> > at a
> >>>>> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second R22
> >>>>> and
> >>>> am
> >>>>> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
> >>>>> > jib.
> >>>>> > But
> >>>>> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
> >>>>> > Dave
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend,
> >>>>> > > and
> >>>>> > > I
> >>>>> > want
> >>>>> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
> >>>>> re-routing
> >>>> the
> >>>>> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for
> >>>>> > > better
> >>>>> > upwind
> >>>>> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference,
> but
> >>>>> I
> >>>> was
> >>>>> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't
> >>>>> let
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
> >>>>> > > like
> >>>> I
> >>>>> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
> >>>>> route
> >>>> for
> >>>>> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > BenCittadino
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > __________________________________________________
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > --
> >>>>> > View this message in context:
> >>>>> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
> >>>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > __________________________________________________
> >>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>>> archives
> >>>>> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> > __________________________________________________
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > __________________________________________________
> >>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>>> archives
> >>>>> go
> >>>>> > to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> > __________________________________________________
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>>>> archives
> >>>> go
> >>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>>>> archives
> >>>>> go
> >>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
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> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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> >>>>
> >>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> >>>> go
> >>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> View this message in context:
> >>> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30134738.html
> >>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>
> >>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> >>> go
> >>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>
> >> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> go
> >> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30135129.html
> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >
> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> > to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
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