[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

Wed Oct 27 09:01:44 EDT 2010

Hi Dave:

I am your neighbor up the road on Lake LBJ.  I have had my Rhodes 22 for the
last 4 years and didn't realize there was another Rhodie so close by.

We have basically the same conditions as you do and when I replaced the
sails this year, I dropped back to a 130 % genoa and added a UPS sail for
light air/downwind work.  I do a lot of single-handing and the boat was
over-powered upwind most of the time trying to use the 175 in the winds that
we experience.  If I rolled it up, then I couldn't point too well on what
you know to be a pretty narrow venue up here.

I'll take heat for this, but unless my knot meter is lying to me, my
experience so far is that the boat is faster overall upwind with the smaller
headsail.  I find the boat is fastest when it's flat and the rig balanced
with a nice entry for pointing.  With just me on board, the 130 comes closer
to accomplishing that in most of the conditions we face here in CenTex.  If
I were on the ocean or a large lake and/or had a bigger crew with more
opportunities for reaching then it would probably be different.  When I do
need more sail, I use the UPS, even upwind.  Of course, it won't point as
well as the 175% in that magical and rare 7-8 kts of steady wind that you
spoke of, but it's a small price to pay.

I ordered the 130 from Stan and basically the foot is 5 feet shorter then
the 175 with a higher clew.  If you are thinking about changing sails you
can come try mine if you want.

David Culp

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:30:27 -0500
From: David Keyes <rhodes22dave at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
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My experience on Lake Travis in Austin on a Rhodes 22 for the past ten
years, using the 175 genoa:

Prevailing winds are 5-15 knots, sometimes less or more, and of course more
in weather.  Winds are sometimes steady, but often shifty especially when
passing coves and tributaries.

The 175 does fine on reaches in winds of at least 4 knots (5-7 is better)
and on up to as much excitement as you want in heavier winds.  I think the
sailing is easiest on my lake if the winds are steady at about 7 knots.
 Often, the wind is 10-15, which makes me focus on keeping the boat steady
and not heeling very much if my wife is aboard.  You will probably want to
take in some sail as the winds exceed 15 or even, when over 10, if the winds
are gusty.  When sailing alone in steady, brisk winds (say, 20 knots), I am
happy to use the full 175 and let the lee rail be right at the water surface
when on a reach.  I let the flared hull sit on the water and pretend it's a
Y-Flyer.  However, when my wife is aboard, I need to keep the boat very
steady and fairly upright. In the first few years of sailing together, she
thought the boat was going to sink and throw her out with the dishwater if
it heeled over more than about 10%.  Therefore, I often furl in the 175 as
necessary for an easy sail.

The 175 does best when not trying to sail close hauled and heading as close
to the wind as possible.  Furling improves being able to sail closer to the
wind, but, in general, my boat does not point nearly as high upwind as the
other sailboats on the lake.  In stronger winds, there is some extra push
away from the wind from its hitting the flared-out portion of the hull.
 When the 175 is furled to create less sail area, there is some loss of
shape compared to a sail that would be designed at the smaller size.

In truly light winds (not uncommon in the hot summer), the 175 sail is so
heavy, and if there are any motorboats making wakes and choppy water (as
often happens in the summer), the large 175 with its weight just flaps
around rather uselessly.  I am not even sure how well it would ghost along
in really smooth water.

Even though the boat carries a lot of sail area for its size and usually
does better with less than full sail in any kind of fresh wind, my boat has
fared well in fairly strong weather on the lake (winds 25-30 with some
higher gusts), even when sailing by myself.  Nevertheless, I tend most of
the time to stay ashore if the wind is much over 15 before I even leave the
dock, especially if the wind direction is unfavorable for my getting into
and out of the dock (which is right near a rocky shore).

Dave

I am getting a new Rhodes 22, and haven't yet decided whether to get a 175
again or go smaller.

David

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Pat,
>
> Like, what a story!  Do you use a furler with the 110?  It almost sounds
> like you can interchange the two sails.  I am satisfied that my next genoa
> will be a 135 or 155.  Ed White has sailed his Rhodes in the South Texas
> winds, also extreme.  I wonder how he best copes with the wind factor.  He
> takes a much larger boat out now, and his son apparently uses the R22.
>  Thanks for the input.
>
> Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Pat & Mary Ann <pmadevig at gra.midco.net>
> >Sent: Oct 25, 2010 4:57 PM
> >To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> >
> >Art,
> >7 years ago when Elton delivered my Rhodes 22 I played around with the
> stock
> >175% that came with the sail plan.  It soon became apparent that the sail
> >was not good for the gusty winds of Northwest Minnesota, so I talked with
> >Stan and he suggested (and sold me) a 110% that has served very well.
>  About
> >the only time I use the 175 is down wind with the clew held out with a
gin
> >pole.
> >Pat.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> >
> >
> >>A few times, a self-tending jib rig has been brought up on the list.  It
> >>really is simple to set up, regardless of the size of the genoa.  This
> >>would facilitate changing from a 175% config to beating upwind.
> >>
> >> Art
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Rhodes22Dave <Rhodes22Dave at gmail.com>
> >>>Sent: Oct 24, 2010 11:50 PM
> >>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Interesting. I will try this.  I also thought that re-routing the genoa
> >>>sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught.  I have never
> >>>liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close to
> the
> >>>wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
> little
> >>>better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail area--but
> at
> >>>a
> >>>cost of sail shape with all the furling.  I may get a second R22 and am
> >>>thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending jib.
>  But
> >>>what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
> >>>Dave
> >>>
> >>>Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend, and I
> want
> >>>> to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally" re-routing
the
> >>>> Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
> upwind
> >>>> sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but I
was
> >>>> delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't let
the
> >>>> Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt like I
> >>>> could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new route
for
> >>>> the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in the
> >>>> shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> BenCittadino
> >>>>
> >>>> S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>View this message in context:
> >>>http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
> >>>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>
> >>>__________________________________________________
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> >>>
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> go
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> >>>__________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
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> >>
> >> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> go
> >> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >
> >For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >__________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
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