[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
Ejor2
ejor2 at aol.com
Fri Aug 24 16:39:45 EDT 2012
Sorry for the confusion, I agree they may serve a purpose on our R22's and are certainly worth a try. I have lost a boat to a hurricane and understand the grief. I was not in anyway criticizing them for the purposes discussed here. Only that they are made, advertised, and sold for use on dinghies, that's the part I don't understand.
Eric J
On Aug 24, 2012, at 3:08 PM, David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the point of the thread was to use them while at a mooring, not for use during sailing. What's pathetic is seeing your boat tied to its mooring laying on its side at in 6 feet of water with the mast stuck to the bottom.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Ejor2 <ejor2 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Rummy,
>>
>> I agree 100 percent!! Having sailed/raced many dinghies, primarily lasers, you are not sailing if you don't lay the boat over! The only excuse I could see for these on a dinghy is if you are learning to launch/retrieve on a beach. The force of the breaking waves would probably be too much for it to help anyway.
>>
>> I am not discounting the possible use as we are discussing, but they are made for dinghies and that's pathetic!
>>
>> Eric J
>> Another on the extreme Rhodes sailing team!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2012, at 12:49 PM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Having previously owned and sailed a Hobie 16 for many years, I can tell
>>> you with some certainty that no skipper would want one of those floats on the
>>> top of his mast. It screams......ASSHOLE ALERT. Look at me. I can't sail
>>> so I have a safety float on the top of my mast. If you really need a life
>>> jacket for your mast, it's time to sell your boat and purchase a recliner and
>>> watch sailing on your TV. Sailing is not for the feeble minded or weak of
>>> heart. It is dangerous, but we accept those challenges every single time we
>>> go out.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 8/24/2012 8:27:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> spreadgoodnews at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> I would think by the time it deployed it would already be stuck in the
>>> mud, but maybe. The hobie mast head is designed to minimize windage. Plus i
>>> have always thought they were cool!
>>> I have NEVER seen a masthead float on a cruiser.
>>> Others might think you to be an extreme racer! Lol!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2012, at 1:53 AM, "Chris Geankoplis" <napoli68 at charter.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if there is an auto inflate device out there that would inflate
>>>> when the mast is submerged a couple of feet. It would mean less windage
>>>> than the big ball on an old Hobie mast.
>>>>
>>>> Chris G
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of David Bradley
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:21 PM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
>>>>
>>>> I'd think the combination of centerboard down and water shallow enough to
>>>> put mast/spreader in the mud would introduce a different and potentially
>>>> bigger problem.
>>>>
>>>> A float on the mast head would be an interesting option and might have
>>> freed
>>>> mine. Does anyone know, is that a standard item? When I took my mast
>>> down
>>>> yesterday the mast head was still full of dried mud. I'm surprised my
>>>> spreader was not bent.
>>>>
>>>> It does seem that the flared hull, freeboard and cabin profile combine to
>>>> create a tendency to roll in a lateral wind. The extreme weather
>>> patterns
>>>> this year have created more cyclonic winds on the East Coast than I ever
>>>> recall experiencing. However, there were a number of other boats that
>>> went
>>>> over in the storm that hit us. One estimate was that 30 boats went over,
>>>> most self-righting. Because our boat can be moored in shallower water,
>>>> usually a benefit, it worked against us this time with the storm hitting
>>> at
>>>> low tide.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a very interesting set of observations! It seems the Rhodes
>>> has a
>>>> weakness being lightly ballasted and an unusual wind scoop (but otherwise
>>>> beneficial) hull flare. Sudden gust heeling the vessel 90+ degrees
>>> buried
>>>> mast In shallow water. This is a big problem.
>>>>> Preventative measures:
>>>>> Leave centerboard down,
>>>>> Increase ballast,
>>>>> Fly an "anchor rider" sail,
>>>>> Add a hobie masthead float.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps even a combination. Any other ideas for prevention on a
>>> mooring?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Richard MacArthur
>>>> <Richard at MacArthurLawFirm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's going on? I thought my Rhodes 22 was self righting. Self
>>> righting
>>>> means that in even the strongest wind it will blow over 90 degrees but
>>> not
>>>> roll. It's supposed to stay at 90 degrees until the wind lets up and then
>>>> right itself. A couple of weeks ago I was caught in a front moving in
>>> and it
>>>> blew about 35 knots. I let all sail free and with that I was heeling at
>>>> about 45 degrees. It didn't go down all the way and as soon as I got the
>>>> sail in, no problem. It seems that when the flare of the hull digs in the
>>>> boat stiffens up. What happens to make it roll? The only thing I can
>>> think
>>>> of is if the vessel is held by the wind with the mast in the water so
>>> that
>>>> water can somehow enter the cabin then it loses its stability and has
>>> only
>>>> the flotation to keep it from sinking and this would allow it to turn
>>>> turtle. I know some catamarans use a flotation device at the top of the
>>> mast
>>>> to stop the mast going to the bottom but the weight in the keel is
>>> supposed
>>>> to do that in a sel!
>>>> f!
>>>>> r!
>>>>>> ighting vessel, unless the interior fills with water. Am I right on
>>> this?
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:01 PM
>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Re: Advise me (Joe Camp)
>>>>>> 2. Re: Advise me (Joe Camp)
>>>>>> 3. Re: It's national rum month. (Charles Nieman)
>>>>>> 4. Re: Advise me (Lowe, Rob)
>>>>>> 5. Re: Advise me (Stephen Staum)
>>>>>> 6. Re: Advise me (David Bradley)
>>>>>> 7. Re: It's national rum month. (Shawn Boles)
>>>>>> 8. Major Jones (Chris Geankoplis)
>>>>>> 9. Re: Advise me (Chris Geankoplis)
>>>>>> 10. Re: Advise me (Chris Geankoplis)
>>>>>> 11. Anchor light housing replacement (Patrick Fletcher)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>> From: Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <1345651363.78003.YahooMailNeo at web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mary Lou:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ? ? ?I think you really have the solution here in considering the
>>> flared
>>>> hull as a potential (or the most likely)
>>>>>> reason for these roll-overs... or mine, anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ? ? ?I have noted how tender the boat is when motoring with the tiller
>>>> locked. ?The boat cannot maintain a straight course if I am moving about
>>> the
>>>> cabin. ?Of course, I am 230 pounds, and that's more ballast to adjust the
>>>> course, but I have learned to steer the boat by changing my position
>>> (even
>>>> slightly) in the cockpit. ?My good sailing friend has a McGregor 25 and
>>> he
>>>> has more "wetted surface" ?(to borrow a term from Stan). ?He can lock his
>>>> tiller and wander fore and aft and beam to beam yet still maintain his
>>> basic
>>>> course. He is more stable and takes more wind to heel the boat. ?Our keel
>>>> weights are about the same. ?In the event that flipped my boat, his
>>> moored
>>>> just a hundred feet away, didn't have a cushion out of place. True, this
>>>> could be due in part to the nature of the weather event itself, but still
>>>> telling as to the side to side stability issue. ?BNy the way, the
>>> integrity
>>>> of my mast has been compromised by being buried in the bottom
>>>>>> mud. Looks like a new mast is in the picture. ?Ah well, you've got to
>>>> have stories to call yourself a sailor. ?Aye, mates??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ? ??
>>>>>> Joe Camp
>>>>>> s/v John Dawson
>>>>>> Bohemia River, MD
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:50 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think any small relatively unballasted boat would be more at risk
>>>>>>> on a mooring. Our boats also have a fair amount of windage with the
>>>>>>> IMF and the flared hull. In a strong wind the poptops are probably
>>>>>>> also a liability unless well secured. I've never felt unsafe at
>>>>>>> anchor and we've been anchored in some pretty high winds but they
>>>>>>> were of short duration and our anchorages are typically more
>>>>>>> protected than most mooring fields.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somewhere I saw it noted that with the warming climate, the world is
>>>>>>> a windier place. That certainly seems true here on the Chesapeake
>>>>>>> (though not today).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mary Lou
>>>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
>>>>>>> Rock Hall, MD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 06:13 PM 8/21/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lack of a deep heavy keel is definitely a contributing factor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Luck of the draw."? Yeah, odd that so many R-22s flipp like
>>>>>>>> this.? It must be the global warming... er ah, "climate change"
>>>>>>>> R-22 effect.? Was this in Al Gore's movie?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> From: Stephen Staum <snstaum at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 4:27 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mine also turtled on its mooring w local cyclones reported. 1
>>>>>>>> power boat was wrecked on the rocks - no other boats in the mooring
>>>>>>>> field were damaged. I think it is just the luck of the draw.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 3:31 PM, Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was not driven ashore.? She flipped right at the
>>>>>>>> mooring.? All other moored boats very near got nothing. I am
>>>>>>>> looking for a slip for next season.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:19 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In my case it took a tornado going thru the "pot" on Poplar
>>>>>>>> Island to do the
>>>>>>>>>>>> deed.? If you sail in shoal waters it will happen to any boat
>>>>>>>> given enough
>>>>>>>>>>>> sudden wind.? In the last 35 years Joe is the only one I can
>>>>>>>> recall other
>>>>>>>>>>>> than mine, and he was driven ashore, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris G
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of PBR
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:15 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to wish ill upon anyone else but...with all this
>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>>> about Rhodes 22's with Masts stuck in the mud, are our boats
>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> inclined to suffer this fate or did these recent storms cause a
>>> lot
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> havoc for other boats the same size?
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>>>> archives go to
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5214 - Release Date:
>>>> 08/21/12
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>> From: Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <1345651740.5488.YahooMailNeo at web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ? ? ?Yeah, thank the maker for insurance. ?I learned yesterday that my
>>>> mast has suffered some dimples up where the spreaders attach. ?I sent
>>> pics
>>>> to Stan, and he confirmed that these will make the mast weaker, maybe
>>> even
>>>> unsafe. ?So, I suppose I am on the hard for the rest of the season. ?The
>>>> marina crew has the cabin cleaned out pretty well, so the main issue is
>>> the
>>>> mast. ?As I said to Mary Lou: "you've got to have stories to call
>>> yourself a
>>>> sailor." ?ttfn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net>
>>>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:16 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gee Joe,
>>>>>>> ??? Sounds like Whack a Mole and you lost.? I'm glad you have
>>> insurance,
>>>>>>> let us know how things came out.? Sounds like Peter was treated well
>>> by
>>>> his
>>>>>>> insurance.
>>>>>>> Chris G
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Joe Camp
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:31 PM
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not driven ashore. ?She flipped right at the mooring. ?All
>>> other
>>>>>>> moored boats very near got nothing. I am looking for a slip for next
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
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