[Rhodes22-list] Ballast ?

Goodness spreadgoodnews at gmail.com
Tue Jan 24 12:43:12 EST 2012 

Well said.  



On Jan 24, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:

> 
> Spread,
> 
> My boat didn't tack well in high winds when I first got her but I added a
> mod that took care of it--a more experienced helmsman.
> 
> The Rhodes has more sail and sheet adjustments than most boats and you can
> lower her boom.  She has a huge rudder for her size and can pivot quickly on
> her centerboard.
> 
> If I fail at my first casual attempt at a tack; I can come off the wind,
> loosen my sheets for the new point-of-sail, pick up speed, and then turn on
> a dime between waves.  Jibing may be easier but if I really must tack it
> ain't that hard to electrically drop and electrically start the motor.
> 
> If you had endless reefing points and an easy method of reefing, deploying,
> dousing, and storing your sails; you might convince me that the juice would
> be worth the squeeze.  If I weren't so lazy.
> 
> But I do agree that IMF has its limitations.
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
> 
> Spreadgoodnews wrote:
>> 
>> I have also noticed comments that the R22 sails better with its water tank
>> full.  Which is 15 gallons (120 pounds) under the v-berth.  I once had an
>> 18' microcruiser that woulnt tack without considerable weight forward.
>> We will have to experiment.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:36 PM, John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I see your point and will try this prior to drilling holes 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Spreadgoodnews wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think this does work pretty well.  The watertribe, everglades
>>>> challenge
>>>> people do some pretty cool stuff.  The sea-saw analogy is close, but
>>>> weight above waterline has more effect than weight below waterline when
>>>> heeling the windward weight will be clear of the water. Plus i am
>>>> talking
>>>> about putting it way out on the sides of the hull.  Centerline weight
>>>> offers little righting moment until a certain amount of heel is present. 
>>>> This is part of the reason twin keel boats  are very very stable.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Goodnews,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thought experiments are good way to pass the time till sailing season
>>>>> begins. The daggerboard with a torpedo would require extensive trunk
>>>>> modification and some inventive engineering not to mention serious
>>>>> dollars
>>>>> which I can't allocate for now. I have a rough design in my head but
>>>>> still
>>>>> need to solve a few problems before going that far. The first thing to
>>>>> do
>>>>> is
>>>>> close the slot temporarily with a plastic strip with the centerboard
>>>>> down
>>>>> and measure performance. I will do that when the water warms enough to
>>>>> go
>>>>> swimming this year. I understand your idea of moving the extra weight
>>>>> out
>>>>> to
>>>>> the sides but wouldn't equal weight placed there cancel out? Picture a
>>>>> see
>>>>> saw with a 100 kid on each side. If I put the ballast inside it would
>>>>> be
>>>>> along the centerboard trunk so when the boat begins to heel the gravity
>>>>> will
>>>>> try to re center the boat. Bolting the ballast to the bottom of the
>>>>> keel
>>>>> gives a 2' mechanical advantage. Putting holes in the shoal keel and
>>>>> sealing
>>>>> them are not a big deal to me, I worked in the swimming pool business
>>>>> for
>>>>> 30
>>>>> yrs. so I am wise to water and its ways. Actually a boat is novel to me
>>>>> I
>>>>> always had to keep the water in something now I'm trying to keep the
>>>>> water
>>>>> out of something. Ironic really.
>>>>> 
>>>>> John S
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Spreadgoodnews wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I like your cognitive rumination.  I like your idea to play with some
>>>>>> extra ballast.  Having a torpedo centerboard with the weight would be
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> because you can reverse it by putting your 70# diamondboard back in. 
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> you may need to add a winch and some stainless cable to lift a 200#
>>>>>> board.
>>>>>> As an alternative, try the physics of this idea.  In fact its not my
>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> but was on one of the participants of everglades challenge.  Put the
>>>>>> weight equally divided on each side.  Under the port settee and under
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> galley against the hull outside the fore and aft stringers, not
>>>>>> centerline.  Use coated lead shot weights like ankle weights or dive
>>>>>> weights.  The idea is that as the hull heels you cantelever the weight
>>>>>> out. The rhodes hull shape would make this work exceptionally well to
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> eye.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:14 PM, John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Slim, Lee, Goodnews,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I understand that I may not gain much and that I may end up removing
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> week after putting them on but how do you figure 200 lbs ballast
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> court
>>>>>>> a potential catastrophe ? I have considered putting the weight in the
>>>>>>> hull
>>>>>>> but bolting it to the bottom of the shoal keel would add considerable
>>>>>>> mechanical advantage over just sticking it under the floorboards. I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> mistaken in my calculation of increase in whetted area it should have
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> 288 sq/in or ~ 2 sq/ft still just not that much IMO. It would be like
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> an extra invisible crew member who always knows when to switch sides.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> 200lbs of ballast is such a radical mod, here's another thought. How
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> chucking the swing centerboard and replacing it with a retractable
>>>>>>> dagger
>>>>>>> board with a lead torpedo at the bottom? That would eliminate the
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> slot
>>>>>>> in the hull which I believe to be a major drag component. Phillip
>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> not design boats in the modern era of computer modeling and space age
>>>>>>> materials. I wonder how he would build the R22 today ? 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tinkerers of the world UNITE !
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> JohnS
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> http://old.nabble.com/Ballast---tp33176958p33181914.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> go
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>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://old.nabble.com/Ballast---tp33176958p33192638.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>> 
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://old.nabble.com/Ballast---tp33176958p33192675.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> 
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>>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Ballast---tp33176958p33195002.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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