[Rhodes22-list] My new toy.... Talk me into saving it
The Rhodes 22 Email List
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Thu Oct 30 08:19:05 EDT 2014
Brad,
Are you anywhere near Washington DC?
I have a 1976 hull on my property which you could have..but it would
have to be transferred onto your trailer. There is some standing water
in the cabin but the deck is pretty decent.I could even throw in a GB
furler.
I am about 20 miles south of DC. If you ever get down this way, you
could come by and check it out. Or give me until this weekend and I
could send you some pics. My wife would be elated if I got rid of it.
Todd T.
--
Sent from my Android phone with [1]mail.com Mail. Please excuse my
brevity.
The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
Well, if its nice tomorrow, I might start drilling and probing.
I've been reading on this all afternoon and most people only have
problems around the fittings and hatches. Mine looks like the whole
thing... I appreciate all your help.Now, if I understand this, as I
drill down, I should have a layer of fiberglass and the core. Then
under the hole should be the lower layer of fiberglass and under
that the cabin liner right?
I wanted to learn this fiberglassing.... looks like I might be
doing it in a major way.....
Thanks Graham,
Brad Bachelor
Marrying an old bachelor is like buying second-hand furniture. --
Helen Rowland 1875-1950, American Journalist
From: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] My new toy.... Talk me into saving it
You deck looks much worse than mine was. I would start by drilling
fairly large holes down to be not through the liner and carefully
examine the core material that the drill bit extracts. If it is
wet, injected epoxy will be useless and the only course open to you
that I can think of is to remove the core and replace it with good
material. You should drill a systematic pattern to make sure you
don't miss any areas - every 4" should be good. While you are at
it, check out the side decks and cabin top. If they are punky too,
then I think the boat should be considered a write-off. By the way,
I had a surveyor check my deck with a moisture meter but that
turned out to not be an accurate indication of the actual
situation.
In my case the only area that was wet was about a square foot
around the air vent near the bow but I didn't know that until I
removed the deck and separated the deck skin from the liner. I just
assumed that if the deck was soft it must be rotten.
The plywood core had delaminated from the skin and even the
different plys had separated. The bond between the plywood core and
the deck skin was very poor amounting to what looked like random
strips of silicone and with time and flexing of the deck it simply
let go. Certainly removing the deck and recoreing it - or doing
this without removing the deck will give the best results.
Taking the sag out of your deck might be difficult. If the core is
solid and just delaminated, and I doubt that it is, you might put
jacks inside the boat to see if you can push it back and hold it
there while you inject the epoxy. If you decide to remove the deck,
you can set up a frame of some sort to hold the outer skin in place
while you place and laminate the new core.
At one point I was trying to devise a system to press up on the
deck to adjust its shape while it was on the boat and came up with
a simple system that used a frame with vertical 2x4s into which I
screwed heavy lad screws into the end of each upright piece. I then
put scratch pads on the head of the lag screw to avoid damaging the
liner. I placed the frame on the V-birth and buy unscrewing the lag
screw I was able to exert considerable pressure upwards in very
fine increments - without spending a fortune of jacks. I have
attached a photo that shows some of these lag screw jacks. My
intention was to use this system to bend the deck at the join to
fit the shape of the deck on the other side of the join. With the
new core the deck was far too rigid for this to work, but in your
case it might be worth considering.
Removing the foredeck in my case was remarkably easy. I removed the
rub rail, cut through the deck in front of the cabin with a
circular saw, drilled out the rivets that joined the hull and deck
and was able to break the seal fairly easily. The deck then just
lifted off in my hands. Most of the time was taken up just trying
to get up the nerve to cut across the deck but in my case, like
yours, I felt that once I had removed the deck and pulled the
layers apart I would know better what I was in for while not
investing anything thus far. If it was not reparable then it would
go to the dump anyway so there wasn't much to lose.
Once the deck is removed you can examine the cut edge in front of
the cabin and see if there is rot there. If there is then you may
find that it is all too far gone.
As I mentioned, getting the deck off and rebuilding it with a new
core and reinstalling the liner was not all that difficult. What
was far more difficult was putting the darned thing back on so that
it didn't look like Frankenstein. That required a lot of grinding
and filling to make the join invisible - especially for me as at
that point I had never done anything like that before and so I
wasted a lot of time getting it right. If you have any body work
experience it would go faster. The last picture was taken after the
deck was reinstalled and the fairing completed but before it was
glassed over and painted.
If you do remove the deck to replace the core, you will need to set
up some kind of form to hold the deck skin in the shape you want it
to be when you are finished. Bonding plywood will make the deck
completely rigid and you will not be able to shape it to fit
afterwards. In my case the form was a very simple T with the cross
piece shaped to the curve that I took from the deck in front of the
cabin. Given the deck distortion in your situation you might need
something with more crosspieces. I have attached two pictures - one
of the form and the other of the deck in the form after
reinstalling the liner. I built up the core using layers of 1/8"
marine plywood - with epoxy sealing all surfaces and thickened
epoxy bonding the layers. I had to temporarily screw each layer
right down through the deck in order to make it take the shape as
well as use timbers to clamp the whole thing to the frame. That
obviously put lots of holes in the deck but given that I knew I
would need repai!
r the deck anyway, that didn't matter.
Once the deck was reinstalled, I covered the entire non-skid area
of the entire fore and side decks with a layer of cloth to cover
all of the holes and then filed and faired the whole thing until it
looked right. Doing the gunwales was the hard part but I won't
bother you with the details unless you actually decide to plunge
in. I have more photos of the steps and tools that I developed to
do this work if you would like them.
Enough for now. If you decide to go further I am happy to share my
experience as it would be comforting to think that I was not the
only person out there who would do such a thing.
Although it made no sense from either a financial or time
perspective to do this, I am pretty happy about how the boat is
turning out and am still glad that I decided to do it. Better than
watching endless games of hockey over those years.
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
22 Email List
Sent: October-29-14 4:38 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] My new toy.... Talk me into saving it
Graham,I have been all over these archives reading your posts. My
Rhodes is a 1974 and it looks like there are alot of similarities
between our boats.
I am curious how you would have fixed your deck without removing
it. Would you have done like on the cabin sides and drilled every 4
inches? What I'm thinking you are doing here is drilling in a grid
and then forcing epoxy into the holes and it fills voids in between
the holes?? Any ideas on how to support the deck so I could
maintain its original shape??? The deck is my main concern right
now. My secondary concern is the severe gelcoat cracking.
I think I have the floor thing down with the bracing. My other
worry though is that all the cleats are plastic. In your
adventures, did you find backing plates on any of these?? If not, I
think I can make that cabin liner look like swiss cheese in a
hurry!!!
Brad Bachelor
Marrying an old bachelor is like buying second-hand furniture. --
Helen Rowland 1875-1950, American Journalist
From: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] My new toy.... Talk me into saving it
Hi Brad:
I imagine that you are disappointed to find the boat in the
condition it is in.
My boat is a 76 and I have had to address all of the problems you
listed and a few more that might still be there to discover. I am
into my 4th year of reconstruction - recognizing two limiting
factors - 1, I am in Ontario and have only a few months each year
when I can work on the boat and 2, I am massively slow in part
because I knew nothing about fixing the boat when I started so much
of this was a learning experience. A third factor which I should
also admit to is that I did just about everything at least twice -
and always the hard way. If you decide to proceed with this project
I might be able to at least point out my rich and varied history of
mistakes.
Even without my limitations though it is a big, big project. My
advice would be that unless you really enjoy the process of
reconstruction, don't do it.
I am one of those perverse types who really loves to do the work
and get great satisfaction from it even when I am hanging upside
down sanding epoxy in 90 degree weather for hours. But if you are
doing this just because you want a boat, chances are that the cost
and effort will take its toll long before the boat is ready. It is
very easy to grossly underestimate the cost of reconstruction. I
wouldn't dare let my wife see my records.
Most of my reconstruction efforts are included in various postings
to the list and if you search the archive under my name you will
find discussion on how I fixed the sunken deck, repaired the keel,
centreboard and rudder, ground out the gelcoat cracks and painted
the deck, reinforced the cabin sides, and so forth. I am currently
replacing the ports with tinted Plexiglas strips which I hope to be
able to attach without hardware. I have the Plexiglas but the
attachment will not occur now until spring. At that point I will be
rebuilding the entire inside of the boat including the floor
stringers, bulkheads, galley and head area - for the second time.
Of course there were tens of thousands of minor things I did along
the way or still await my attention like installing new
chainplates, rub rail, pulpits, paint the interior and so forth. My
ultimate goal is to complete the boat before I die. Right now it
seems to be a tossup as to which will occurs first.
Feel free to ask if I can be of any assistance.
Graham Stewart
gstewart8 at cogeco dot ca
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
22 Email List
Sent: October-29-14 12:16 PM
To: Rhodes 22 list serv
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] My new toy.... Talk me into saving it
I just got back home last night from a trip to get a 1974 Rhodes
from her original owner. Now don't get me wrong, I knew this was
not a show piece when I got it, but inspecting it today, shows I
have some serious issues. I guess what I'm asking is can I fix em
all.... Here's some of them (pics
attached)
1. The deck is sunken in the midde and very soft. It looks the way
to strengthen it is through the cabin liner. Or is there another
way???
2. Gelcoat cracks and crazing all over. This would not be a simple
grind it out and fill it proposition. The surface of the boat looks
more like a road map of the eastern United States!!
3. The floors are all rottted out and there is still water in it (I
see how to fix this, so I think this will be easy 4. The concrete
in the keel area is all broken up (this worries me alot). I guess I
could chisel it out and pour more, but has anyone had success doing
this??
5. Cushions are toast
6. Bushings are missing from the (old) roller furling system (what
type of material is this???:)
This is just the start. I told myself, that when I went to pick it
up, I could always get my money out of it by using the hardware to
improve my current boat, sell the trailer, and saw her up, but then
again, I've always wanted a Rhodes 22..... I really am on the fence
on this.... Can I fix her??
Should I scrap her????
Brad Bachelor
Marrying an old bachelor is like buying second-hand furniture. --
Helen Rowland 1875-1950, American Journalist
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