[Rhodes22-list] Unbolted track

Tue Jul 27 14:11:20 EDT 2021

Aluminum would work. It should be "passivated" if used in a marine environment to prevent corrosion and oxidation. I have used brushed & anodized aluminum without issue.

Some have taken the trouble to paint the backing plate white to match the gel coat of the interior. There are many paint products that are compatible with aluminum. You will probably need to use the proper primer.

I just prefer the clean look of stainless.

Mike
s/v Wind Lass ('91)
Nissequogue River, NY
I’d rather be sailing :~)

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of michael meltzer
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 12:34 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Unbolted track

Would not AL plate work?  Just a little thicker. Always see masts with SS and AL together so metals seem ok together. Alot simpler to work with. Am I incorrect?

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 11:00 AM mweisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:

> I use SHARP cobalt (Kobalt) bits in a drill press turning 1600 RPM, 
> max, WITH cutting oil. Go slowly, keep the drill at right angles to 
> the material and peck regularly (withdraw to clean flutes). If you 
> really have trouble with 316, buy 303/304 stainless and save $$ on the 
> material and drills (use HSS bits). 316 is recommended in marine 
> environments for corrosion resistance but if it is typically inside 
> the cabin or lazarette it will help.Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) 
> Nissequogue River, NYI'd rather be sailing ⛵
> -------- Original message --------From: Cary Tolbert < 
> retiredtoby at gmail.com> Date: 7/27/21  11:33 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: The 
> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Unbolted track Mike, 316 s/s is very difficult to drill.
> What tools do you have to cut anddrill 1/4 inch of the 316 stainless 
> steel?Just curious. This info could give some of us hope.CaryS/V 
> Whisper '86On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 11:25 AM mweisner 
> <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:> I typically use 1/4" thick 316 stainless 
> steel sheets. The size
> varies> depending on the load from 1" x 2" strips for small hardware to 12"
> x 12"> sheet stock ($130 at McMaster) for the mast crane cleat. One 
> easily
> found> source is McMaster Carr (>
> https://www.mcmaster.com/metals/stainless-steel/shape~sheet-and-bar/co
> rrosion-resistant-316-stainless-steel-6/thickness~1-4/).>
> An image of the link is attached at the end of the email.> Mike> s/v 
> Wind Lass ('91)> Nissequogue River, NYI'd rather be sailing ⛵Please 
> consider
> the> environment before printing this email.> -------- Original 
> the> message
> --------From: Jesse Shumaker <> jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> Date:
> 7/26/21  11:28 AM  (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List < 
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Unbolted 
> track Just curious for those that have added> backing plates in 
> certain scenarios,what material have you used for> this?I've used 
> steel sheet metal from Home Depot that I cut to size with> anangle 
> grinder and painted with Rustoleum primer and paint> 
> beforeinstallation.  I didn't find stainless steel sheet metal at the> 
> hardwarestore or home improvement stores.  I don't recall the> 
> gauge/thickness thatI used.  I also used fender washers on top of the> 
> backing plates.  I'veadded backing plates for the bow cleat, two 
> chocks> that I installed towardsthe bow, a flip up midship cleat that 
> I installed,> as well as the throughbolts for the anchor roller 
> mount... so far so> good.Jesse ShumakerS/V ZephyrOn Mon, Jul 26, 2021 
> at 9:48 AM Michael D.> Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>wrote:> I agree 
> with Stan.>> The track was> designed to support the stresses of the 
> jib car. The forces> experienced in> such use are directed more fore 
> and aft, for which the
> track> is secured> properly. A track mounted cleat, whether for spring 
> track> line
> or> docking,> exerts significant forces upward and side to side, for 
> or> which
> the> track is> not well suited. Such applications will likely result 
> the> in
> damage to> the> track, as you have found. Lastly, the track may fail 
> if
> significant> force> is applied, simply due to its age, which is not a
> necessarily a> design> flaw.>> By the way, I use the foredeck mounted 
> docking cleat as part of my> mast> crane system. I have through bolted 
> and spread the transmitted forces> using> a backing plate to 
> accommodate the nearly 500 lbs of vertical force> that is> applied by 
> the winch at the start and end of the mast erection> process.> This is 
> quite different than the original purpose of the deck> mounted> 
> docking cleat which was designed to sustain mostly lateral> 
> (horizontal)> forces when docked or moored.>> Please do not assume 
> that any> fixture will withstand forces outside of
> its> design parameters and> remember to account for changes due to age 
> its> of
> the> device and boat.>> Mike>> s/v Wind Lass ('91)> Nissequogue River, 
> the> NY>>
> -----Original Message----->> From: Rhodes22-list < 
> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of>> THOMAS POLISE via
> Rhodes22-list> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:28 AM> To:> Lewin <
> lewin at mail.com>> Cc: stan <stan at generalboats.com>; The Rhodes 22> 
> Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: 
> [Rhodes22-list]> Unbolted track>> It was being used as a spring line 
> when it broke track>>
> >> On Jul 26, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Lewin <lewin at mail.com> wrote:> >> > 
> >> If
> a> track mounted cleat were only used for bow and stern spring lines> 
> a> would
> it> be less likely to fail?> >> > ------------------> > Bernard> >> >> 
> it> > On
> Jul> 25, 2021, at 9:27 PM, THOMAS POLISE via Rhodes22-list <>>
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:> >> > I only posted because there> 
> were previous posts about mounting cleats> on the track. I have no> 
> complaints about the boat and enjoy everything> about it.  I know now, 
> the> hard way, not to mount cleats on the tracks and> wanted to make 
> others> aware. I will repair and continue on enjoying> everything 
> about the boat.> No disrespect was intended, Stan, and I will> 
> continue to appreciate> everything you did to create this incredible 
> boat.> >> >> On Jul 25, 2021,> at 6:47 PM, stan 
> <stan at generalboats.com> wrote:> >>> >> > >> My O my, I> am flattered 
> when those Rhodies who praise the Rhodes> engineering get> pleasure 
> out of finding what they think is a flaw.> >>> >> In the Rhodes
> 50> plus years, I have not heard of a single genoa track> pull off - 
> 50> when
> used> for what it was designed to do; carry the load of the> giant 175
> genoa> sheets. That load is carried by a great number of machine> 
> genoa> screws;
> more> than sufficient to carry the shear loading placed on them.  Of>
> course Todd> did not mean they should be bolted on to the gel coat.  
> But I> think his> comment that "I've found more than a few 
> questionable things> which needed> to be properly "re"engineered." is 
> gratuitously disingenuous.> Personally> my over the hill engineering 
> mind would think it silly to mount> docking> cleats to genoa tracks. 
> Even if those tracks had long enough> machine screw> passing all the 
> way through the outerside of the hull and had> fender> washers and 
> lock nuts on them, those shiftable docking cleats would>> distort the 
> thin edges of the genoa tracks making the genoa cars a chore> or> even 
> impossible to adjust.> >> If you want to put on docking cleats,> mount 
> them to the boat proper.> You want a spring line cleat, don't use it> 
> for a docking cleat.  You want a> boat engineered for docking? Have I 
> got a> boat to sell you. No hands, no> straps, just three little 
> docking eyes. See> attachment. Guaranteed to hold> for any winds. Just 
> stop putting moving> docking cleats where they are not> invited to 
> go.> >>> >> stan> >>> >>>> >>>> On 7/25/21 12:00 PM, THOMAS POLISE via 
> Rhodes22-list wrote:> >>> I> found that there are no nuts or nut 
> plates, just curious if anyone> else> had a similar situation.> >>>> 
> >>>>> On Jul 25, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Todd> Tavares 
> <tavares0947 at gmail.com>> wrote:>
> >>>>>> >>>>> Those are machine> screws. There should be nuts 
> >>>>>> >>>>> underneath or
> nut> >>>>> plates embedded in> the rail under the gelcoat.> >>>>>> 
> nut> >>>>> >>>>>
> But it wouldn't surprise me if> the machine screws were just> >>>>> 
> threaded into wood or even threaded> into epoxy. I've found more> 
> >>>>> than a few questionable things which> needed to be properly> 
> "re"engineered.> >>>>> Let us know what you find> once you dig into 
> this problem.> >>>>>> >>>>> Todd T.> >>>>>> >>>>>> On> Sun, Jul 25, 
> 2021, 11:10 AM Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>>> wrote:> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Hi Thomas,> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Would you prefer gelcoat> damage?> 
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Never mount a dockline holding cleat without a> backing 
> plate.> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Rick Lange> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> On 
> >>>>>> Sun,
> Jul 25, 2021 at 11:02 AM THOMAS POLISE via> Rhodes22-list> >>>>>> < 
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone else notice 
> that the jib track is just put in without> >>>>>>> bolts.  I added 
> cleat to track which was yanked out in high winds.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> 
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